You literally just said that Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent, why do you think that is, where did you think all the people go?
Meanwhile, it’s relevant to the discussion of Taiwan because US is the sole reason there is a problem in Taiwan. If you can’t understand how China funding and supporting and independence movement in Hawaii would be analogous to what US is doing in Taiwan, then what else is there to say to you.
The people didn’t “go” anywhere. They’re still there. Their descendants make up around 10% of the population. They’re US citizens and the majority of them aren’t part of any independence movement. Did some die during the period where the US overthrew their monarchy? Of course! It was an armed conflict, after all. Did we slaughter all or even a significant percentage of the natives? No, we didn’t.
We have slaughtered native populations elsewhere. You want to point fingers at the US, there’s plenty of places to point. But your Hawaiian argument reeks of ignorance.
And again, that has nothing in common with the PRC/ROC division.
You claim that the US is the only reason Taiwan doesn’t want to be part of the PRC. Is that what the PRC government tells its people? That the Taiwanese desperately want to dissolve their government and submit to the PRC but us evil Americans won’t let them? Why not ask some Taiwanese people about that?
You admit that there is a “problem in Taiwan,” but maintain the illusion that the PRC controls Taiwan? You can’t have it both ways. Either you control it, or you don’t.
There is nothing else you can say to me, because you ran out of arguments a while ago and keep trying to push some narrative about Hawaii. You haven’t answered any of the questions from my last comment. You haven’t given me any reasons why Taiwan is really part of the PRC in any practical sense, because there isn’t one.
Should really read that link I gave you up there from an actual native person in Hawaii.
The only thing that reeks of ignorance is claiming that US isn’t the only reason Taiwan issue exists. Where did the money for separatist movement come from exactly, who created the sunflower movement, and props up the DPP excatly?
US is the problem in Taiwan, after the civil war in China, US decided to prop up the side that lost and actually referred to Taiwan as an unsinkable carrier. That’s the problem in Taiwan.
There is nothing else I can say to you because it’s pretty clear that you’re either woefully uninformed on the subject you’re attempting to debate or just a shill for your empire.
Why? I’ve spent a good deal of time in Hawaii, know quite a few native people personally, and have read up on Hawaii’s history. Yet some link from someone that searches out and posts nothing but anti-US articles all the time is supposed to change my mind? I don’t think so.
Going back to the actual topic (Remember the topic? About chip availability and Taiwan being the source of chips, and how Taiwan is de facto its own country? Yeah, that one.):
You claim that the US is the reason for Taiwan not being part of the PRC. You also say Taiwan is part of the PRC. So what is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Oh well, since you’re so well informed on Hawaii, are you denying anything the link says or do you think that’s just normal stuff happening there that you endorse?
The actual topic is that Taiwan is not its own country, and you continuing to repeat that over and over here isn’t going to change reality. The issue isn’t between Taiwan and the rest of China, that can be resolved any time. The issue is between China and US. Right now China expects that it will be able to push US influence out of Taiwan in a peaceful way, and as I’ve earlier explained, that’s precisely where things are likely to go next year when KMT gets in power. However, if China decides they’ve had enough of US messing around in their country and violating their sovereignty then they will resolve the issue militarily. These are the only two possible outcomes here.
Donald S. Zagoria (30 October 2003). Breaking the China-Taiwan Impasse. ABC-CLIO. pp. 68–. ISBN 978-0-313-05755-7. OCLC 1058389524. Retrieved 20 March 2022. “Taiwan possesses all of the elements of a sovereign state: a legitimate government, population, and a well-defined territory. The fact is that the People’s Republic of China (PRC), while claiming sovereignty over Taiwan, has never ruled Taiwan since the PRC’s establishment in 1949. Thus, Taiwan is in fact a sovereign country from our perspective.”
You’re of course right that UN hasn’t decided to let Taiwan join, and that UN decisions should be important. But it’s not just my opinion that PRC has never in its pretty long history ruled in Taiwan.
I believe you were saying in another discussion that territory that Russia took from Ukraine by military force is now theirs, even though they have been there for less than 10 years.
It’s not just that the UN that hasn’t let Taiwan join, it’s that the UN along with vast majorities of the countries recognize PRC as the legitimate government, and have embassies on mainland China. Even US does not have an embassy in Taiwan.
Meanwhile, I really don’t see how you can draw parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine to be honest. I have to assume you don’t know any history of Ukraine based on your statement. During USSR days Ukraine was part of the same country as Russia and people living in eastern Ukraine are largely ethnically Russian. That’s why the civil war started after the coup in 2014.
No, I’m not denying anything about Hawaii because it’s irrelevant to the topic.
I don’t argue that the PRC says it owns Taiwan. My argument is that, in reality, it’s just words. I could walk down the main street of Taipei today with my pants down and the PRC could do nothing to stop me. The ROC, on the other hand, can.
Your civil war isn’t over yet. You can blame us for that all you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that the PRC does not, in fact, control Taiwan. And take this from an evil imperialist: if you don’t control it, it’s not yours.
I love how I’ve explained three separate times how this is relevant to the topic, and you just ignored that. It’s like when you talk to a telemarketer with a script they have to follow. 😂
Again, your argument is nonsensical and I explained in detail why it’s nonsensical. China will either let people of Taiwan kick US out the way people did in Hong Kong, or they will take action to kick US out. Either way, the end result will be that US is going to lose its unsinkable carrier.
And I’ve explained several times why Hawaii is irrelevant to the topic, yet you keep yammering on about it and wanting me to “condone” the US’ actions in Hawaii. What I condone or not condone has no bearing on the PRC and Taiwan situation. What the US did in Hawaii has no bearing on the PRC and Taiwan situation. You’re just trying to deflect the actual argument.
Again, your argument is nonsensical and I explained in detail why it’s nonsensical.
No, you didn’t. You sidestepped the topic altogether and tried to turn the discussion into something else.
China will either let people of Taiwan kick US out the way people did in Hong Kong, or they will take action to kick US out. Either way, the end result will be that US is going to lose its unsinkable carrier.
And when that day happens, the PRC will finally own Taiwan. Until then, it’s just hand waving and words. Feel free to send me a “I told you so” message when it happens.
And I’ve explained several times why I think China should start doing all the things US is doing in Taiwan in Hawaii. Of course, you’re correct that making parallels between the two is at best superficial. Taiwan is rogue province of China, while Hawaii is an independent country US occupied by force.
Meanwhile, I don’t know what argument you claim I’m trying to deflect given that I’ve repeatedly addressed yours directly.
And when that day happens, the PRC will finally own Taiwan. Until then, it’s just hand waving and words. Feel free to send me a “I told you so” message when it happens.
If you genuinely believe that then really don’t know what else to tell you. It’s pretty obvious that China is allowing Taiwan to play these games, but the reality is there is no substance behind them. Claiming Taiwan is independent is like claiming that CHAZ was independent before cops cleared it out.
You literally just said that Hawaiian independence movement is so tiny as to be nonexistent, why do you think that is, where did you think all the people go?
Meanwhile, it’s relevant to the discussion of Taiwan because US is the sole reason there is a problem in Taiwan. If you can’t understand how China funding and supporting and independence movement in Hawaii would be analogous to what US is doing in Taiwan, then what else is there to say to you.
The people didn’t “go” anywhere. They’re still there. Their descendants make up around 10% of the population. They’re US citizens and the majority of them aren’t part of any independence movement. Did some die during the period where the US overthrew their monarchy? Of course! It was an armed conflict, after all. Did we slaughter all or even a significant percentage of the natives? No, we didn’t.
We have slaughtered native populations elsewhere. You want to point fingers at the US, there’s plenty of places to point. But your Hawaiian argument reeks of ignorance.
And again, that has nothing in common with the PRC/ROC division.
You claim that the US is the only reason Taiwan doesn’t want to be part of the PRC. Is that what the PRC government tells its people? That the Taiwanese desperately want to dissolve their government and submit to the PRC but us evil Americans won’t let them? Why not ask some Taiwanese people about that?
You admit that there is a “problem in Taiwan,” but maintain the illusion that the PRC controls Taiwan? You can’t have it both ways. Either you control it, or you don’t.
There is nothing else you can say to me, because you ran out of arguments a while ago and keep trying to push some narrative about Hawaii. You haven’t answered any of the questions from my last comment. You haven’t given me any reasons why Taiwan is really part of the PRC in any practical sense, because there isn’t one.
Should really read that link I gave you up there from an actual native person in Hawaii.
The only thing that reeks of ignorance is claiming that US isn’t the only reason Taiwan issue exists. Where did the money for separatist movement come from exactly, who created the sunflower movement, and props up the DPP excatly?
US is the problem in Taiwan, after the civil war in China, US decided to prop up the side that lost and actually referred to Taiwan as an unsinkable carrier. That’s the problem in Taiwan.
There is nothing else I can say to you because it’s pretty clear that you’re either woefully uninformed on the subject you’re attempting to debate or just a shill for your empire.
Why? I’ve spent a good deal of time in Hawaii, know quite a few native people personally, and have read up on Hawaii’s history. Yet some link from someone that searches out and posts nothing but anti-US articles all the time is supposed to change my mind? I don’t think so.
Going back to the actual topic (Remember the topic? About chip availability and Taiwan being the source of chips, and how Taiwan is de facto its own country? Yeah, that one.):
You claim that the US is the reason for Taiwan not being part of the PRC. You also say Taiwan is part of the PRC. So what is it? You can’t have it both ways.
Oh well, since you’re so well informed on Hawaii, are you denying anything the link says or do you think that’s just normal stuff happening there that you endorse?
The actual topic is that Taiwan is not its own country, and you continuing to repeat that over and over here isn’t going to change reality. The issue isn’t between Taiwan and the rest of China, that can be resolved any time. The issue is between China and US. Right now China expects that it will be able to push US influence out of Taiwan in a peaceful way, and as I’ve earlier explained, that’s precisely where things are likely to go next year when KMT gets in power. However, if China decides they’ve had enough of US messing around in their country and violating their sovereignty then they will resolve the issue militarily. These are the only two possible outcomes here.
Again, not the stance of the UN or pretty much any other country in the world. You do you though.
You’re of course right that UN hasn’t decided to let Taiwan join, and that UN decisions should be important. But it’s not just my opinion that PRC has never in its pretty long history ruled in Taiwan.
I believe you were saying in another discussion that territory that Russia took from Ukraine by military force is now theirs, even though they have been there for less than 10 years.
It’s not just that the UN that hasn’t let Taiwan join, it’s that the UN along with vast majorities of the countries recognize PRC as the legitimate government, and have embassies on mainland China. Even US does not have an embassy in Taiwan.
Meanwhile, I really don’t see how you can draw parallels between Taiwan and Ukraine to be honest. I have to assume you don’t know any history of Ukraine based on your statement. During USSR days Ukraine was part of the same country as Russia and people living in eastern Ukraine are largely ethnically Russian. That’s why the civil war started after the coup in 2014.
No, I’m not denying anything about Hawaii because it’s irrelevant to the topic.
I don’t argue that the PRC says it owns Taiwan. My argument is that, in reality, it’s just words. I could walk down the main street of Taipei today with my pants down and the PRC could do nothing to stop me. The ROC, on the other hand, can.
Your civil war isn’t over yet. You can blame us for that all you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that the PRC does not, in fact, control Taiwan. And take this from an evil imperialist: if you don’t control it, it’s not yours.
I love how I’ve explained three separate times how this is relevant to the topic, and you just ignored that. It’s like when you talk to a telemarketer with a script they have to follow. 😂
Again, your argument is nonsensical and I explained in detail why it’s nonsensical. China will either let people of Taiwan kick US out the way people did in Hong Kong, or they will take action to kick US out. Either way, the end result will be that US is going to lose its unsinkable carrier.
And I’ve explained several times why Hawaii is irrelevant to the topic, yet you keep yammering on about it and wanting me to “condone” the US’ actions in Hawaii. What I condone or not condone has no bearing on the PRC and Taiwan situation. What the US did in Hawaii has no bearing on the PRC and Taiwan situation. You’re just trying to deflect the actual argument.
No, you didn’t. You sidestepped the topic altogether and tried to turn the discussion into something else.
And when that day happens, the PRC will finally own Taiwan. Until then, it’s just hand waving and words. Feel free to send me a “I told you so” message when it happens.
And I’ve explained several times why I think China should start doing all the things US is doing in Taiwan in Hawaii. Of course, you’re correct that making parallels between the two is at best superficial. Taiwan is rogue province of China, while Hawaii is an independent country US occupied by force.
Meanwhile, I don’t know what argument you claim I’m trying to deflect given that I’ve repeatedly addressed yours directly.
If you genuinely believe that then really don’t know what else to tell you. It’s pretty obvious that China is allowing Taiwan to play these games, but the reality is there is no substance behind them. Claiming Taiwan is independent is like claiming that CHAZ was independent before cops cleared it out.