(Or hardly anyone knows)Believe it or not, a 60-year-old programming language, COBOL, still powers major systems like banking and insurance. To be honest, it...
I always wonder if I should just learn COBOL and try to just do a few juicy contracts a year and focus on my other pursuits (farming and considering making a game, as well as vacation of course) the rest of the year.
My friend’s mom gets called back for COBOL stints at major US banks all the time. I don’t know how long it’ll last, but apparently the list of people to select from and bring in is ridiculously short.
I’ll have to ask, she worked as a COBOL contractor for multiple banks historically so it might be one of those “who you know” type things. I’ll circle back and reply here if I hear anything.
I wouldn’t recommend it. I actually looked up COBOL jobs a while ago, and while they paid more, it was only like 20% more - not enough to make it worth it IMO.
I live and work in Japan where dev salaries are much lower so, if I could just get a contract gig in USD, that would be pretty big for me especially with 1usd being 150 JPY or more
There’s also someone doing AOC in ABAP (basically SAP COBOL) who posts over in the AOC subreddit. I’ve looked at them and … mhm, I know some of these words!
I mean, the fact that more than half-century-old COBOL continues to be maintained does speak to the fact that it is maintainable. That might also be part of what makes COBOL painful to the average developer: You’re not only dealing with a language that first appeared in 1959, designed for machines that were very different than modern computers; you’re also dealing with over a half century of legacy code, including all that means for Hyrum’s law.
Unfortunately maintainable and pleasant to work with are rather distinct concepts.
Just knowing the language isn’t enough to make the obscene money. You have to also be very familiar with the systems that use the language, and that takes years.
I have domain knowledge for some usages at least, and worked on things that were converted fairly recently from COBOL and places that still had AS/400 and such in use. I am aware I would need experience (beyond personal) before any real money would be there.
This isn’t true. If you can get by while working part-time, you still have at least 40 hours every two weeks to work on your game.
It’s one of my biggest regrets, that after school I immediately jumped into full-time job, even though I realistically could live comfortably with 1/3 of the pay I was getting, since young+no familly+no car+shared living reduces your living costs by a very large margin. My best friend did that and has been working only 2 days per week since. I was trying to keep up with him, working on our game in my free time, but it’s simply not feasible to build on top of 40 hours per week of regular job, and then do anything meaningful on your side projects. I barely struggled to get myself to do at least 20h of work per month on the project, missing deadlines, and it sucked.
He, on the other hand, kept our game project afloat and moving forward, with 60+ hours per month, while also writing and running a large LARP for 100 of players, directing his own theater group, and in general successfully working on a lot of projects, including several smaller games.
The best advice I can give, if you want to be a game developer, is to 1) not work in gamedev and 2) work part-time. The IT salary should net you a comfortable life even on part-time pay, assuming it’s not gamedev. Smaller studios will have difficulties keeping afloat if they need to pay you, and in larger AAA studio you will be the same code-monkey crunching JIRA tickets as you would be in any IT job, but for a lot less money. And the design freedom you get when your livelyhood doesn’t depend on your art’s success, be it games or anything else, is totally worth it.
For example, this game has been developed solely in free time, without anyone getting paid for working on it. It’s not AAA and the development takes a long time, but it definitely doesn’t need to be a fulltime job.
You probably dodged a bullet there, thinking you can “just make a game” with a polish that makes it playable. It is a skill you have to learn, several actually. You can learn that if you work in the gamedev industry so I don’t understand why you recommend against it.
Taking x time off to make a game with low knowledge could be a fun endeavour but not more than hiking IMO.
I forgot to add that I had a Masters in Game Development and Computer Graphics, which definitely helped, but I still learned most of my gamedev skills by regularly attending gamejams and working on my own projects. I’ve also started working in gamedev for the past year, and I wouldn’t say that it teaches you much, since you are missing out on 80% of actuall development and only crunch JIRA tickets and bugfixes, as a junior that is, without being exposed to the more important parts or other skills. Assuming you join a larger studio with game in progress, in an indie studio with team of 10 people, you’ll probably have a lot more responsibilities and impact on other stages of the game’s development.
It was only two years, and it was basically half nornal computer science classes, and half working with engines, making a game with classmates and mentors from the industry throughout the year, and learning about rendering, AI behaviors (the videogame kind, not LLMs). The graphics part was about shaders, lighting, post-processing, global illumination, renderers and math, not modeling. It was mostly technical, but we had some game desing classes.
I always wonder if I should just learn COBOL and try to just do a few juicy contracts a year and focus on my other pursuits (farming and considering making a game, as well as vacation of course) the rest of the year.
My friend’s mom gets called back for COBOL stints at major US banks all the time. I don’t know how long it’ll last, but apparently the list of people to select from and bring in is ridiculously short.
how can you realistically enter that list?
its not like they bring in just anyone that learns it i guess?
I’ll have to ask, she worked as a COBOL contractor for multiple banks historically so it might be one of those “who you know” type things. I’ll circle back and reply here if I hear anything.
I wouldn’t recommend it. I actually looked up COBOL jobs a while ago, and while they paid more, it was only like 20% more - not enough to make it worth it IMO.
I live and work in Japan where dev salaries are much lower so, if I could just get a contract gig in USD, that would be pretty big for me especially with 1usd being 150 JPY or more
Eevee’s heteroglot entry for COBOL is interesting, coming from … practically anything else.
There’s also someone doing AOC in ABAP (basically SAP COBOL) who posts over in the AOC subreddit. I’ve looked at them and … mhm, I know some of these words!
I’ve fallen down the rabbithole. I’m reading a free course (from 2001ish) on Cobol.
I now question everything. I mean, technically, basically anything is maintainable in that it’s possible…
Just remember the Voyager spacecraft are still out there… and being maintained.
I mean, the fact that more than half-century-old COBOL continues to be maintained does speak to the fact that it is maintainable. That might also be part of what makes COBOL painful to the average developer: You’re not only dealing with a language that first appeared in 1959, designed for machines that were very different than modern computers; you’re also dealing with over a half century of legacy code, including all that means for Hyrum’s law.
Unfortunately maintainable and pleasant to work with are rather distinct concepts.
COBOL also can work with all modern day components. Like odbc/SQL etc…
Just knowing the language isn’t enough to make the obscene money. You have to also be very familiar with the systems that use the language, and that takes years.
I have domain knowledge for some usages at least, and worked on things that were converted fairly recently from COBOL and places that still had AS/400 and such in use. I am aware I would need experience (beyond personal) before any real money would be there.
Try it out! Being a self taught programmer is incredibly rewarding.
I don’t know if this is realistic. Considering making a game is a full time job.
It won’t be my first and I’m not going super ambitious or AAA. If it takes me 5 years to do it, that’s fine.
I wrote my first game in straight C with no laptop so literally writing code on paper when not at a PC which I would later type in later
This isn’t true. If you can get by while working part-time, you still have at least 40 hours every two weeks to work on your game.
It’s one of my biggest regrets, that after school I immediately jumped into full-time job, even though I realistically could live comfortably with 1/3 of the pay I was getting, since young+no familly+no car+shared living reduces your living costs by a very large margin. My best friend did that and has been working only 2 days per week since. I was trying to keep up with him, working on our game in my free time, but it’s simply not feasible to build on top of 40 hours per week of regular job, and then do anything meaningful on your side projects. I barely struggled to get myself to do at least 20h of work per month on the project, missing deadlines, and it sucked.
He, on the other hand, kept our game project afloat and moving forward, with 60+ hours per month, while also writing and running a large LARP for 100 of players, directing his own theater group, and in general successfully working on a lot of projects, including several smaller games.
The best advice I can give, if you want to be a game developer, is to 1) not work in gamedev and 2) work part-time. The IT salary should net you a comfortable life even on part-time pay, assuming it’s not gamedev. Smaller studios will have difficulties keeping afloat if they need to pay you, and in larger AAA studio you will be the same code-monkey crunching JIRA tickets as you would be in any IT job, but for a lot less money. And the design freedom you get when your livelyhood doesn’t depend on your art’s success, be it games or anything else, is totally worth it.
For example, this game has been developed solely in free time, without anyone getting paid for working on it. It’s not AAA and the development takes a long time, but it definitely doesn’t need to be a fulltime job.
You probably dodged a bullet there, thinking you can “just make a game” with a polish that makes it playable. It is a skill you have to learn, several actually. You can learn that if you work in the gamedev industry so I don’t understand why you recommend against it.
Taking x time off to make a game with low knowledge could be a fun endeavour but not more than hiking IMO.
Source: ancient gamedev
I forgot to add that I had a Masters in Game Development and Computer Graphics, which definitely helped, but I still learned most of my gamedev skills by regularly attending gamejams and working on my own projects. I’ve also started working in gamedev for the past year, and I wouldn’t say that it teaches you much, since you are missing out on 80% of actuall development and only crunch JIRA tickets and bugfixes, as a junior that is, without being exposed to the more important parts or other skills. Assuming you join a larger studio with game in progress, in an indie studio with team of 10 people, you’ll probably have a lot more responsibilities and impact on other stages of the game’s development.
Yes, a small dev team is the ticket, and even then you might be excluded from marketing and all that jazz like funding, getting edited etc.
You seems to be on track to be a game dev of sorts, and who knows, maybe you’ll make your own games one day, good luck!
Forgive a question from an oldtimer, what exactly is a master in game dev and computer graphics?
Do you learn how to code and like draw, model, rig & animate? Code 3D engine stuff? Game mechanics I guess? For 5 years?
I’m curious :-)
It was only two years, and it was basically half nornal computer science classes, and half working with engines, making a game with classmates and mentors from the industry throughout the year, and learning about rendering, AI behaviors (the videogame kind, not LLMs). The graphics part was about shaders, lighting, post-processing, global illumination, renderers and math, not modeling. It was mostly technical, but we had some game desing classes.
I wishlisted that game. Is it yours? Looks right up my alley…
The creator of Minecraft made the game in his spare time.