• Kaputnik [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Like the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement which began actively protesting and gained support in the 1960s, pretty soon after the referendum?

    • adroit balloon@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Like the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement

      sure. why not? people can object to or protest anything.

      the fee expression of speech in a democratic forum, however, certainly argues against any of this being “fascist”, though. thanks of pointing this out!

      • Kaputnik [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        So then your point about

        Hawaiians could have protested, revolted, or one of many other options. But they didn’t.

        Is false

        So to quote you

        That’s the thing about facts— your opinions don’t magically make them untrue, regardless of how many folksy sayings or logical fallacies you conjure.

        • adroit balloon@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Is false

          only if you intentionally take them out of context and twist the meaning. because they didn’t do that before the vote. as you said:

          Like the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement which began actively protesting and gained support in the 1960s, pretty soon after the referendum?

          so, despite your obviously bad-faith and disingenuous argument, I’m not as stupid as you think I am. nice try.

          That’s the thing about facts— your opinions don’t magically make them untrue, regardless of how many folksy sayings or logical fallacies you conjure. NOR how much you try to twist my words.

            • adroit balloon@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              you’re this desperate? wow

              you’ll do anything but make a rational argument based on facts.

              • Kaputnik [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                I dunno what to tell you dawg if you can’t understand that a referendum of Hawaiian residents from 1959 doesn’t represent the opinions of Native Hawaiians after 60 years of American control and immigration to the island. If you’re so into facts and stats you should know a representative measure of their opinion could only be done through a survey of Native Hawaiians

                • adroit balloon@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  doesn’t represent the opinions of Native Hawaiians

                  1. that was never my argument
                  2. this is a straw man argument because you couldn’t argue agains the facts I initially stated and moved the goalposts from Hawaiian residents to Hawaiian natives
                  3. as such, it’s irrelevant

                  even if it were relevant then it isn’t now just because you’re angry about… whatever.

                  If you’re so into facts and stats you should know a representative measure of their opinion could only be done through a survey of Native Hawaiians

                  well, why don’t you do that and come back when YOU have some relevant facts to present, and we can talk again.

                  • Kaputnik [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    Okay we’re in a thread talking about how Native Hawaiians feel about the American government. I actually want to know why you are arguing this point and what you feel it accomplishes, in genuine good faith. Like are you Native Hawaiian, do you like in Hawaii, do you just like the idea of being able to visit Hawaii without a passport, or is there some other reason?

                    For me, I’m arguing this because I believe Indigenous people around the world have a right to self governance and freedom from colonial occupiers. So what’s your reason?