🌶️🥵Many people consume Facebook meta company’s tech stack wholesale, don’t know how to actually traditionally program their way out of a paper bag, and web dev and devops caused a massive layoff (250k people) at the end of 2022, start of 2023 because it was all vaporware. They consume the same software in droves if the other guy uses it.

There is an entire subculture around it that is just a bunch of medium.com writers, YouTubers and twitter handles just trying to get the clicks for their ad money. Some of these guys have never written valid software or done anything noteworthy. If you meet them head on you’d find they have enormous egos and can’t find a counter argument when presented with reason.

I’ll even add on that there are many programmers who don’t know how to code outside a web app.

Why is something like [react, graphql, react ssr, devops, tailwind, unit tests, containers] vaporware?

• there are other frameworks even with component libraries that are easier to read the code for large codebases, better maintained, and have cohesive full stack solutions, and even faster to develop in, to name one quasarJS or even just plain ecmascript
• if you look at the anatomy of these enterprises using these solutions they’ve evolved to have micro front ends requiring armies of workers.
• devops is a sales term, the actual implementation of it is so contextual that you’d probably find you don’t need a full time job for it half the time and most are relatively easy to setup inside of a business quarter
• not everything is Facebook scale: unless you’re padding your resume why did some of these get adopted? How complicated does your app need to be? Did you really need to transpile JavaScript for it?
• unit tests were code to test your code that you’re going to have to functionally test anyways: you’re telling me that you have to write your code…twice? How the hell did this ever get justified to mangers? Why did the culture not evolve into literal automated smoke tests of the actual builds, instead of testing whether a function that is probably type annotated is going to fire anyways???
• docker/containers suck ass: great that they solved a problem but created a whole new one. we moved to python and JS which were JIT without artifacts and suddenly everything needs a generalized build system to run it. C lang variants and Rust lang compile to a binary you can just run… Ship the small ass binary not an entire container to run your shitty web app

You know the stuff I don’t hear about?

• Javascript and Python were steps in the evolution but never the end goal. I’d even say the same of java. There are new solutions but JavaScript in the browser especially should be replaced.
• eye appeal is buy appeal
• that eye appeal shouldn’t always mean you need to use a library or framework; vanilla apps work okay too.
• binaries/artifacts/installer packages > containers
• automated testing of the actual end product
• well written logging to the point someone can tell what the application was doing without seeing code
• using all these compsci algorithms to actually write new products and searches from scratch instead of being a framework baby: do you actually need ELK or Splunk for your search? Really?
• you probably don’t need MySQL for a lot of projects, I bet you an async library with sqlite would be the same for many of these projects.
• small teams with feature rich apps using SSR, the value of an SSR web app
• the value of a SPA
• the value of traditional desktop software and not using REST APIs

Ah yeah the guy who opposed Putin

Yeah surprise he’s dead

I’m so green to it I can’t comment. What have you seen that’s a turn off?

I see a whole lot of meme coiners over there so far lol.

Maybe you don’t really want an account one one server but rather the whole experience. Seems good nuff for that.

I see the issue. You’re on Lemmygrad. So naturally everything has to be pro China, pro communism, and the moment someone says “yeah they all suck equally” you have to lick the boot. Seek a prescription for schizophrenia.

Fuck you right in your ass. I complained that everyone in here is pitching their agenda for their favorite country in the comments and what do you do? Exactly that. Learn to read.

Its far more weird how many people pick one of these countries like its a RPG faction. Can we all agree most of these countries do some totally evil things as far as governments go? Who gives a fuck how much debt they’re in, they’re all just printing their monopoly dollars anyways and we’re stuck with the inflation. Its like people like to masterbate to their favorite team via internet comments.

There’s a twitch streamer I watch and he often says that he feels like he can’t find information about Ukraine, then goes on to elaborate that there just isn’t many sources available to the US to find news without propaganda cooked in. It’s hard to know what to even trust in the first place.

I feel strongly that applies to reading articles about China as well especially if they’re written in English.

Thank you for taking the time to post and add in more links.

I think both China and the US as well as many other countries have insane financial positions, for quite some time now. The housing market in the US really painted that clearly. As I understand it in 2014ish the US passed legislature allowing companies to legally do the same thing they did that causes the housing market collapse again. According to the movie the big short at least, and some googling with that.

Yeah that’s understandably frustrating. I heard they make like no money off of that. Wonder how long before it hits the killed by google list.

Huh. I guess I mostly use foss stuff and maybe a few apps like youtube premium/tv, that I pay them for service so I never hear about it.

I had a lot of that experience with an app called Postman before I switched to Insomnia.rest for software development. Same thing with twitter after musk bought it.

What app or tech is badgering you? I feel like with standard android and pop! OS I have zero complaints. Everything just works

Thanks for weighing in. Yeah! This is basically what I am thinking I’ll have to do. I just tried Github actions and runners with a very small internal app and I liked it. I’ve never worked closely in AWS but I’ve gotten trained in/used Azure a few times and it’s basically the same thing on my end.

Robust tests, larger conditional workflows in github actions, and some sort of staggered rollout I think are the conclusion I’m arriving at.

Godspeed. I hope the transition goes well. If you need to baby step towards it, I felt like docker swarm was easier to approach but kubernetes is far more standard. I recommend budgeting training into the rollout if your shop can afford it. For CI/CD I recently had a great experience with github and github actions but I had a coworker setup on-premise gitlab in the past too.

Somewhat of a tangent - My experience with alembic of over four years is that it is leagues better than manual SQL dealings, and also very easy to understand what you’re looking at. But I have to say that when I used sequelize in NodeJS, it has an autosync and autoupgrade schema that made alembic look silly.

In regards to my own post I think for now what I’m mostly seeing is that for each new deployment - is going to have to have an internal smoke test, then staggered rollout of updates.

Reading what you wrote here - I think this is confirming my looming suspicion. Which is that there is no standard today for upgrading docker containers. Since upgrades happen app to app. For example if I have a docker-compose deployment and service A is lemmy, and service B is postgres the app in this case service A will have to have its own logic for handling upgrades or code migrations.

In other words, the upgrade process can depend on how the software developer writes the software; independent of docker/k8s/vm’s or whatever deployment strategy you are running.

I think what I was hoping for was that I’d ask if there was a newer smooth standardized way to do software upgrades besides A/B testing or staggered rollouts but I’m not really seeing that.

I’m not super familiar with Lemmy’s codebase but it looks like they’re using diesel ORM here and have migration handling on a case by case basis for some major changes. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/blob/main/src/code_migrations.rs**___****___****___**

Yeah. I got tired of posting and a message saying “you cant post that for sake of our community” across almost every single subreddit. If I see that shit on lemmy I’ll make sure to block the entire server that has lemmys doing that. Its one thing to can some bots. Its another to have game devs as subreddit mods block negative sentiment for example, or an overzealous mod push their views and just delete comments.

Its not like I’m out there posting some insane content, either. I tried posting a 15 second video of a funny bug of a dude stuck spinning around to crab rave and I couldn’t even post that to the diablo 4 games subreddit.

Creators both put out so much dogshit that I have to cherry pick and also my sub feed doesn’t account for actually good content.

So yeah I stopped paying attention to it. Even as a YouTube premium member.

The peak of garbage was when YouTube enforced a 10 minute watch time for max profit. They rolled it back but dude there used to be 8 minutes of fluff for a 2 minute video.

TLDR: I’m still very suspicious of how that is quantified - “leading to an overall better product”.

Who quantifies that and how, on a case by case basis, especially in the form of Chromebooks or phones for revenant, popular examples?

Let’s say it was a laptop: I can see issues with lithium batteries perhaps reaching a cycle count that lead them to be dangerous. Wouldn’t that mean though you should produce a good that has replaceable batteries? Is the battery designed in such a manner on purpose?

Businesses with shareholders that live quarter to quarterly profit are the issue. There is no authoritarian legislator that reallocates resources like China did the last few years, for example, whether you like it or not.

The US relies on legislation to be passed to mandate the changes or prohibit a device from being built a certain way. That legislation can be lobbied for loopholes, have various people in power also own percentages of the companies, etc. Whether you agree with it or not, there are many checks and balances and simultaneously a lack thereof.

That…is impressive.