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Joined 2 years ago
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Cake day: August 12th, 2022

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  • It’s a state enforcing a particular administrative jurisdiction.

    It’s state banning religious organization no matter how many rounds of mental gymnastic you do

    These are all Orthodox churches, literally the same denomination. The Ukrainian church declared its autocephaly so that it is not administratively dependent on the Moscow Patriarchate and that was recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and others (eg the Church of Greece, the Patriarchate of Alexandria).

    This has nothing to do with the matter

    What this move does is Ukraine mandating that churches within its boundaries adhere to the autocephaly. It’s not banning anything, just returning canonical ownership of the physical infrastructure to the canonical administration.

    Gold medal at mental gymnastic. This is just setting up state supported religion and opressing those not adhering to it.

    This makes sense in the context of a war of national liberation, when the enemy is literally in a position to do propaganda by controlling those churches.

    Finally you say something with substance, unfortunately for you this substance jut offer a more or less valid reason for state opression, not making the opression disappear.

    Ultimately, this is more like confiscating Russian assets than restricting religious freedom.

    Oh damn, so having anything at all to do with Russia now justifies literally everything

    From the point of view of a believer, the only observed difference will be which particular patriarch is mentioned during mass, nothing else changes dogmatically.

    Sure, it’s only religion, known as least important and trivial issue ever. Read yourself again what you just wrote here.

    and these are all internally orthodox politics.

    It’s not when a state comes in and bans and confiscates. Afaik Ukraine is secular state, it does not have state religion so why it does everything to look like it have one.

    The Vatican commenting on it is as absurd

    I mean sure Vatican shouldn’t throw any stones when the topic is religious freedom, but again, it’s clear case of religious opression.

    as, say, the Egyptian Coptic church making pronouncements about the Pope’s dismissal of cardinal Burke

    Bizarre and missed comparison. More apt would be if Egyptian Coptic church expressed concern over US state banning and confistating US catholic church (or any other non-Coptic church in US).

    But then again, the Vatican not staying in their lane has been the original reason of the 1054 schism to begin with, so this isn’t that surprising.

    Good thing you mention 1000 years old history! Makes your erlier dismissal of any concern over the organisation and worldy manner of denomination even funnier and more detached from reality. I’m sure there was no issues with antipopes or friday prayer names ever, after all “nothing else changes dogmatically”















  • But that’s just being nice to those who are automatically nice to them.

    That’s part of a diplomacy. Also ask yourself, why are they being nice to them, especially places being plundered by wester colonialism for centuries. For example something like the current situation in Niger where French diplomat get his credentials and visa revoked over not even pretending to be doing his job + ignoring the government he was ambassador to + inflammatory speech of Macron worsening the situation. Which leads to the curious problem of westerners, including a lot of people in this thread, having weird definition of diplomacy as dictating ultimatums to kneeling nonwhite people. USA and EU are now doing exactly this: dictating ultimatums, and are bewildered when other people don’t want to hear this.

    Also, it’s not olny being nice: there are a lot of treaties being signed, a lot of gound prepared for further ones - this is how you gauge diplomacy.

    Why don’t they do the same with those who oppose them?

    You mean Russia? West is only speaking to Russia with ultimatums and loaded “propositions”. I guess the revelation of how France and Germany treated the Minsk agreement was a big bucket of cold water for Russia, they stopped believing what NATO says.

    They just keep doing “no u, no u, no u.”

    Again, what does west expect when they aren’t even engaging in a good faith? Non hostile countries hear something vastly different, as proven by the examples i cited earlier.

    In that respect, other countries such as Saudi Arabia and China have better diplomacy.

    Idk about Saudis, but China recently vrokered a deal between Iran and Saudis, two of the most traditionally mutually hostile countries on Earth, i would call this stellar diplomacy.