👏 you 👏 are 👏 troll 👏 and 👏 lack 👏 basic 👏 reading 👏 comprehension 👏

I’ve reviewed the comment thread. You know other people can rread it too right? So everyone who gets this far knows you are just making this shit up.

We’re having this conversation in public kiddo. But maybe it is best you head to bed. You clearly need a break.

Whatever dude. You are a sad fucking troll.

No one is being bigoted here and all of your whinging is projection.

You are just using that as an excuse to create a narrative you wish existed. And I wish it existed too. I wish there was an anti-genocide movement in Israel. I wish there was an opposition within Israel to work with and organize with. I can’t find anyone not-outside of Israel who appears to hold the view that Israel is conducting a genocide and that they need to stop.

The fact is that you just made shit up repeatedly to pretend things were the way you wanted them to be and have continued to proceed in-spite of several other commenters with far, far more knowledge and experience on these matters showing you that you are just talking out of your ass.

I mean, I see what you are saying, but that is pretty rhetorically light. I can see this as maybe the start of something, but I think what we’re seeing out of Israel warrants a more focused and directed conversation.

What in the chicken-fired chuckle fuck are you talking about?

I’m asking you to support something you’ve said with evidence. I’m telling you that I’ve looked for the thing you claim exists and I can’t find it. You have continuously repeated a claim about there being an anti-genocide movement within Israel that requires accounting for. I’ve looked for this movement in media and within my friends and family in the region. I can’t find evidence for it. You claim it exists. Show me your evidence or shut the fuck up.

You are just making up the idea that anything any one here has said is biggoted. Its completely disconnected from reality

You like, really need to go touch some grass.

You are asking people to support your claim that there is an extant anti-genocide movement within Israel. You’ve done it repeatedly throughout this entire post.

YOU are making a claim and I’m asking for your evidence.

You are making a claim for the existence of a thing. No one else made that claim. We are asking for evidence of that claim. I’ve looked for evidence. I am not finding any evidence of a “don’t genocide the Gazans” movement within Israel. I can find evidence outside of Israel.

If you want to believe this, its on you to show us it. The entire thread obviously knows much more about whats going on in Israel and all we’ve gotten from you is your projection of how you wish things were.

If this opposition to the Israeli led genocide exists within Israel show us.

I’m just trying to not be rude, because I think you’ve lost your own thread and are very confused.

Ok. I think you need a break for the day. I can’t treat you as if you are arguing in good faith at this point.

You want there to be this different thing that this protest about. I wish it was about that thing too. But when a protestor says “I’m protesting about this thing” my job isn’t to tell them they are actually protesting some other thing or that they should be protesting this other thing. My job is to listen to them and believe what they are telling me.

But the protestors are being clear about what they are protesting about. They want the hostages back. They are not talking at all about stopping the genocide.

As far as people I’ve talked to about this. One is a personal friend, a former IDF soldier and former fellow organizer during BLM 2020. We organized as part of a veterans coalition in support of BLM. Second is my cousins and Uncle (a self described Zionist) who is a very high level organizer on the US side for Israel. He has spent years in Israel although he lives in the US, as have my cousins. I’ve also spoken with my irl best friend who is from Palestine and with whom I was literally planning a trip to Gaza for not that if not for Oct 7th, who has personally organized Palestinians for peace events in Gaza.

I also listen to and read several prominent Palestinian/ Muslim/ and Jewish voices on the left.

I think you need to address the fact that you’ve conflated these protests for something they are not before we can proceed, and I continue to treat with you as if you are engaging in good faith.

Can you acknowledge that these protest are not about stopping the genocide of the Palestinian people? That the article is not about stopping genocide? Because you made that conflation previously.

No, I’m making the point that if there is descent on this issue within Israel I can’t find it. I haven’t heard it. I’m also not going to project a desire to believe it exists onto a world where I don’t have evidence for it. I want to find it. I’ve looked for it. I can’t find it.

All the Jewish led criticism I’ve found of Israels actions appears to be coming from the diaspora. I can’t find sources from within Israel calling the Israeli campaign a genocide or calling for it to stop.

@oakey66@lemmy.world started this thread with the topic:

If every hostage was returned, Israel would be looking for every opportunity to level Gaza and further displace Palestinians in the West Bank.

and they are right.

You said:

But let’s not pretend they’re a hive mind.

I pointed out that I’ve seen there are no sources I’ve seen to the contrary coming out of Israel. Everything I’ve seen to the contrary (sources which would make the argument that Israel should not be engaging in genocide, agreeing with @oakey66@lemmy.world 's point ) has been coming from diaspora sources, not sources within Israel.

You then responded with:

just read the headline of the post

But the headline of the article does not make that point, and neither does the article. In fact, its another unit of evidence to suggest there is almost no will to stop the genocide of the Gazan people coming from within Israel. The word genocide occurs no where in the article. There is no mention of forced removal. There is no mention of ethnic cleansing. These protests clearly have nothing to do with the ongoing genocide of the Gazan people and are solely focused on “getting the hostages back”. If there are other sources or people that can speak for the protests that say other wise, I’d love to find them. I’ve not found anyone in Israel willing to call what the Israeli government is doing a genocide. Dissent in Israel wants the hostages back, but they don’t seem to give a shit about the continuing genocide of the Gazan people.

If you think that these protest have anything to do with stopping the war or stopping the genocide, its yourself who has gaslit you.

They are protesting the retrieval of the hostages; not the genocide of the Gazan people. As far as I know, there are almost no voices in Israel speaking out against the genocide of the Gazan people.

Maybe you should read the article.

If there are dissenting voices in Israel they need to speak up. And if voices within Israel are speaking up they need to be amplified.

All dissent I’ve heard has come from the diaspora.

It’s a politics forum of political junkies discussing nuanced political perspectives and news articles. I wouldn’t jump into a forum on car mechanics and make some generic statements about the how combustion makes the motor go around.

It’s a basic naivety of the mechanisms around how politics work, that isn’t objectively wrong (if the world only worked according to flow charts from Wikipedia), but completely misses the point in the reality that isn’t how power works. Reality is subterfuge. Reality is real politik. Reality is posturing and gesturing and floating test balloons and doing basically nothing. Reality is the tail wagging the dog so that you can claim the dog wags the tail.

The study of politics is the study of identifying what has been communicated without it being said, and how that impacts power structures.

Oh for christs sake. I know you are smarter than this. Stating the incredibly obvious while missing the point isn’t additive.

Like you know how politics works right? Do you get what’s being said in my statement? It’s about sending a signal. Power is about persuasion, not who in an org chart is labeled to have some authority. You move the messenger, not the message.

My point is incredibly cynical. I’m not suggesting any one would actually do anything. But they would communicate a shift, and since Biden is a lame duck anyways, it’s not his policy or even really white house any more. It’s Harris’s. She absorbs the consequences for what it does or doesn’t do, and as such and she’s also now responsible for it’s policy.

Half the time I think Lemmy has pass around the same brain cell with the ginger cats.