YoU dOn’T kNoW wHaT lIBeRaL mEaNs

Nuance has entered the discussion

If they’d died in the Saudi heat to a secular activity - at an F1 race event or inside a poorly A/C’d movie theater or trapped on an overheated bus - would that have been better?

What a ridiculous statement. No it wouldn’t be better, but when was the last time you heard of nearly a thousand people dying at an F1 race event, or inside a movie theatre due to lack of AC? If that were happening multiple times per year we would shut down F1 /movie theaters in a heartbeat.

Fact is that the Hajj claims thousands of lives every year, all in the name of religion.

Which is a shame, because the Hajj as a cultural event was originally intended as this class-agnostic unifying practice social event. You aren’t supposed to visit these holy sites encapsulated into these exclusive expensive little bubbles. You’re intended to mingle with people from the rest of the world and revel in a certain shared experience common to the faith the world over.

Yea as long as you aren’t a woman.

Don’t be surprised that people are using religion to grift the gullible and exploit the poor - that’s what religion is best at.

The Saudi government has an ethical responsibility to mitigate the risks. It’s not like this was some freak accident. This was entirely predictable and this will defiantly continue to happen until protections are put into place.

Such senseless loss of life in the name of religion. Many hundreds or thousands of people die each year doing the pilgrimage, often times from crowd crushes, literally getting squished to death because there are so many people, or just exhaustion.

There are only a few short video clips on YouTube of the massive crowds and it is sort of unnerving seeing that many people in a moving crowd. Super weird what religion makes people do.

There is also this weird video which talks about how they plan to revolutionize the hajj to make it safer and accessible to more people - using technology in a weird blend of old world meets new.

I do hope they find a way to make it safer because people will never stop doing it, but the whole concept just seems absurd to me.

I have heard of the sun.

What makes 7am a correct sunrise, or 6am, or any other time?

A 6am sunrise in New York is not going to be a 6am sunrise in Iceland, even with time zones in place.

A 6am sunrise in December is not going to be a 6am sunrise in may… so how would you determine what is ‘astrologically correct’

Also… I am going to just assume you mean astronomical and not astrological, because astrology is bullshit.

Areas with a 9am sunrise could start school at 10am

Astrologically correct accurate time? What does that mean?

Yup, agreed completely.

Yea that all makes sense. I guess what I was trying to say was that taking the money out of the hands of the ultra wealthy seems less likely to actually happen than the smaller changes which are indeed happening slowly but surely, like greater access to clean water, food, shelter, education, the empowerment of women, etc. Generally speaking, those small changes are happening across the planet and I have hope that those changes will continue. A world with actual wealth equality just seems like a pipe dream, but on the other hand, things like indoor plumbing seem achievable globally.

You kind of lost me at ‘if we house, feed, and educate people than it will be more expensive to go to the movies or have internet’

The only hope we have of leveling the playing field is to focus on the achievable goals I mentioned. I don’t see why it is necessary to take from the rich to achieve these goals.

Don’t get me wrong, if it was at all possible to level the playing field by redistributing the wealth of the rich, that would be my first choice, I just don’t think that’s possible the way things are. I think it would be defeatist to think that that is the only way to lift people out of poverty.

Edit: one other point is that everyone benefits from less poverty, including the wealthy. The incentive is there for these changes to occur. Poor people don’t make very good consumers. Dealing with the effects of poverty is ironically a massive economic burden on society.

I really which it were that simple… they elect the politicians, they write the legislation, and even if somehow they were taxed at 95% they would still pay $0, like they do now ): it’s really hard not to feel apathetic when it comes to late stage capitalism. That invisible hand has got us by the balls.

Fair enough, but how do we take the money from the rich people if they are the people writing legislation and funding elections? Does it really matter what percent we declare that they are taxed when they pay precisely 0 percent at the end of the day?

And watch the few remaining small businesses who are operating on a shoestring budget and are the only ones actually paying capital gains get eaten up by the large corporations who offshore their gains. Small businesses who have debt aren’t able to write off principal debt payments so on the books they make money that they pay tax on, but in reality they just gave that money back to the bank to pay off ‘business assets’ which aren’t worth shit when the business isn’t making money. So they make just enough money to pay the bank, then are hit with taxes for the money they paid the bank, and they float by in the red until the inevitable bankruptcy. If they are a franchise, corporate then comes in and sells the business to the next sucker who is willing to gamble on the false hope of the franchise model. Big corporate sells the business to a new ‘owner’ every 5 or 10 years, and the banks get another government backed SBA loan with no risk.

We are in the latter days of capitalism, increasing capital gains won’t work when the big guys already don’t pay shit.

This is going to get downvoted ):

Preventing people from becoming rich is not what we should be focused on. A maximum wage is a good headline but doesn’t make any sense at all (read other comments on this post).

We should be focused on eliminating poverty and building up the middle class.

I hate the reality of super rich people existing in a world where millions starve to death or don’t have access to clean drinking water, but rather than focus on eliminating the ultra wealthy (which just won’t happen), we should be pushing to lift people out of poverty, which might happen if push comes to shove.

Nofx - you’re wrong:

You’re wrong about virtues of Christianity And you’re wrong if you agree with Sean Hannity If you think that pride is about nationality, you’re wrong

You’re wrong when you imprison people turning tricks And you’re wrong about trickle down economics If you think that punk rock doesn’t mix with politics, you’re wrong

You’re wrong for hating queers and eating steers If you kill for the thrill of the hunt You’re wrong 'bout wearing fur and not hating Ann Coulter Cause she’s a cunted cunt

You’re wrong if you celebrate Columbus Day And You’re wrong if you think there will be a Judgement Day If you’re a charter member of the NRA, you’re wrong

You’re wrong if you support capital punishment And you’re wrong if you don’t question your government If you think her reproductive rights are inconsequent, you’re wrong

You’re wrong fighting Jihad, your blind faith in God Your religions are all flawed You’re wrong about drug use, when its not abuse I hope you never reproduce

You’re getting high on the downlow A victim of Cointelpro You’re wrong and will probably never know