• ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    41
    arrow-down
    18
    ·
    1 year ago

    Nobody is forcing him to be a member of the profession – to paraphrase one of his tweets that was complained about “You’re free to leave [the profession] at any point.”

    Jordan Peterson really is free to leave the profession - he doesn’t need the money. Meanwhile a psychologist who isn’t independently wealthy can’t express controversial opinions without risking his livelihood. I don’t think “only the rich can exercise freedom of speech” is good policy.

    • mrbubblesort@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      36
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      1 year ago

      Meanwhile a psychologist who isn’t independently wealthy can’t express controversial opinions without risking his livelihood

      Oh fuck off with that. The opinion he expressed was, and I quote, (about child deaths) “it’s just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyways”. A licensed medical professional should never say something like that, period, even in jest.

      • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        10
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        I don’t know the context for that quote and I don’t think it’s particularly relevant to my argument. Even if we assume the worst possible interpretation, H.L. Mencken still said it best:

        The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.

        • escapesamsara@discuss.online
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          You’re right, that’s why I support genocide. There are too many oppressive laws aimed at oppressing the rights of fascists, or as I’ve taken to calling them, people with genocidal thoughts they’d like to turn into actions. You can’t start oppressing them, otherwise someone could use those laws to oppress me!

      • AdmiralShat@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        19
        ·
        1 year ago

        Copy and paste of another user’s comment:

        Good article?

        The comments that formed the basis of the complaints against Dr. Peterson included comments on a podcast in which he commented on air pollution and child deaths by saying “it’s just poor children…”

        This quote is the most disgusting out of context character assassination I’ve seen in a long time.

        I got suspicious because while Jordan does say things that women and/or trans people often find deplorable. I know that he’s a strong supporter of the poor (at least in rhetoric) and as a family man I assume of children as well.

        The full context can be found on Spotify. Episode #1769 of “The Joe Rogan Experience” start from about 15:30. He’s the one that brings up how 7 million poor children die from indoor particulate pollution. Joe doesn’t believe him and gets a fact check, which eventually leads to Jordan sarcastically saying “Well, it’s just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway…”

        It’s such an insane mischaracterization of what he said, you can’t take the article seriously. Probably would have to write off the entire website that article is from, honestly.

    • ttmrichter@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      26
      arrow-down
      6
      ·
      1 year ago

      And again people don’t grok what “freedom of speech” entails.

      You can speak all you like. If what you say pisses people off, they can avoid you all they like, up to and including MOTHERFUCKING EMPLOYMENT.

      Freeze Peach idiots need to grow the Hell up!

      • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        1 year ago

        People forget that free speech also includes freedom of association. You can say what you want but others have the freedom to choose not to associate with you because of it.

        • pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          But freedom of association is used to justify racial discrimination, including segregation, so that doesn’t really work either.

              • ttmrichter@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                Name a right you think has no limitation.

                I’ll find your limits (if you’re honest, which, given this is the Internet, is highly doubtful).

                Here’s a foretaste:

                “The pursuit of happiness…”

                If my happiness involves making other people miserable, well, either you’re a fucking sociopath for supporting it, or there is an intrinsic limit: “…provided you don’t interfere with the happiness of others.” And with that one safe-seeming limit, we open a can of worms in defining just the word “interfere” there.

                Still want to play this game?

                • pinkdrunkenelephants@sopuli.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  All of them. Any that have any sort of limitation imposed upon the user by anyone automatically turns that right into a privilege granted to you by other people, and by extension easily removable by others at any time for any dumbass arbitrary reason.

                  I know you’re going to say this means all rights are privileges. And you’re right. We don’t have any rights. We need them but don’t have them. This is how humanity has chosen to carry itself through this life, and the future. We lost the plot on rights a long time ago and we might not ever get them back.

                  “The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.” ― H.L. Mencken

                  • ttmrichter@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Say you didn’t read and/or understand the post you’re responding to without using those specific words.

    • mycatiskai@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      He isn’t free to leave the profession because part of his con is that he is using his professional status when he writes something or says something as a psychologist.

      His worth as a propagandist is that he can attach that professional status to his messages, if it’s “disgraced” psychologist, or “struck off” psychologist then it has less impact because he has been found to have broken his professional conduct to the point where he lost the title.

          • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I think there are plenty of people who aren’t already Jordan Peterson’s fans but wouldn’t want to be forced out of their profession for something they said outside of work. His fight will appeal to them whether or not he wins in court.

            • escapesamsara@discuss.online
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              Which means they don’t understand the situation and never will. This is not ‘forced out of their profession for something they said outside of work,’ this is ‘an electrician declaring electricity doesn’t exist and encouraging people to cut down power lines.’ This is not ‘oh no he said he likes pizza rolls instead of pizza,’ this is ‘a professional in a field has stopped updating his knowledge in said field and has actively advocated against large parts of his own field based on nothing but his own mental and moral failures.’

              Peterson was free to address his ‘concerns’ in a scientific way, giving him the basis to actually argue his points as valid, if alternative scientific fact. The truth his nothing he has ever stated is scientifically defensible; and when you’re licensed to use science in a way that can help or kill people, you need to stay up to date with the science and only use the most up-to-date peer reviewed science.

              He is free to speak however he likes, he is free to get almost any profession he likes and speak how he likes, he can’t essentially go against 70 years of scientific advancement because he wants to make money on the side catering to people with 1860s beliefs on science.

      • propaganja@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I have no high regard for the guy, but are you seriously, like seriously seriously, trying to tell people that Jordan Peterson depends on his professional title for… literally anything?

        Are you saying that without it, he will lose a non-trivial amount of… anything?

        • mycatiskai@lemmy.one
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          He won’t lose out on his current game as people watch him already, but when he wants to write a book and say J. Peterson, psychologist he won’t be able to and that is a selling point for books and being taken seriously.

          • propaganja@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            So if the argument were about whether a license was important, in the general case, as a selling pointl for books, I would have no choice but to concede.