A Russian neo-Nazi paramilitary group that supported the Wagner mercenary rebellion has announced it will no longer fight in Ukraine, accusing the Kremlin of abandoning its leader.
Please note that I do not disagree with the heart or the premise of your post. I just feel obligated, as someone who is 100% on the side of Ukraine, to point out a bit of nuance. Because while there is NOTHING good or right about Nazism and the politics of hate, it’s not that simple in terms of the groups you just mentioned:
The Azov Battalion is clearly neo-Nazi, and so is the Wagner Group, who named their outfit after Hitler’s favorite composer.
Yes. It is good to remember, though, that despite their ideology, their collective aims could not be more disparate:
The Azov Battalion fights tooth and nail in defense of Ukraine, and always have. They are literally heroes of Ukraine right now, along with so many other Ukrainian groups and individuals who are not Nazis at all. The Russians have capitalized on this and consistently tried to blame the Azov Battalion for their own crimes, like the Bucha massacre and the theater bombing of Mariupol, using disinformation to make it seem as though Azov Battalion was committing these crimes against civilians to further their Nazi ideology, when in fact it was the Russians all along. The enlarged myth of Azov Battalion is what Putin fed the babushkas at home to justify invading Ukraine, when so many Russians have relatives and ancestral roots there.
Wagner Group fights for Putin and always has. But they are not driven by independent Nazi ideology at all, they are an arm of the Russian government. Putin himself is the neo-Nazi at the head of this group: he openly embraces authoritarian, repressive government and is doing his very best to export it to the rest of the world, as well as trying and failing to assimilate a proud and independent Ukraine into his delusions of Russkiy Mir.
To me, these are two very different things that both have some Nazism sprinkled in and around them.
Again, there is absolutely NOTHING good or right about Nazism.
Yet in war, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
So even as Nazi-style political tricks and propaganda threaten the very foundations of my own country (US) and were directly involved in January 6 (Proud Boys) I just can’t fault Azov Battalion right now, and I feel obligated to set the record straight when Azov Battalion is painted as simply a right-wing hate group, when they are giving everything they have, including their lives, to free Ukraine from very REAL “Nazi” (Russian) occupation.
War is really strange that way. The good guys always seem to have more villains than we suspect (like the US in WWII), and even the bad guys often have a few heroes.
And in this case, there is real Nazism, and then that which simply dresses up like Nazism, and then that which blames “Nazism” for its own crimes.
And then, to make it even more complicated, Russia suffered directly (and horribly) at the hands of Nazi Germany in WWII, and thus the cry of “Nazi!” is a reliable emotional hook which Putin uses freely in his propaganda to get the general people on his side. Not just at home in Russia but around the world, and not just in one direction but both coming and going. Like creating the myth of “antifa”, literally short for anti-fascist, to characterize the goals of people who are rightly appalled by real right-wing ideology and goals, even as he funds openly fascist propaganda efforts in the west.
So yeah. It’s far more complex than it seems, much of it by design. Evil usually is. Слава Україні!
Azov was founded by nazis, western media and ukrainian reports that all the nazis have magically dissapeared are exagerated for obvious reasons.
This being said, there does seem to be some truth to them being less virulently fascist once they were integrated into the regular army, and maybe after so many of the original members died. The lack of anti-semitism for example, is telling. Ukrainian (orthodox) jews and members of Azov fight alongside each other.
I think the branding stuck because they were undisputably heroic and fighting Russia, and also as a fuck you to the Russians. Also, still plenty of nazis.
We have similar issues in Belgium, where flemish nationalists make excuses for collaborationists. During the first and second world war, the Germans exploited long held (and often legitimate) grievances held by Dutch speaking Belgians. So for example, they opened the first Dutch/Flemish speaking university in Belgium and offered Flanders a high degree of autonomy. During WW1 the Belgian army was also very francophone, which IRC caused some dutch speaking soldiers issues, this was exagerated by flemish nationalist and IRC german propaganda. The end result was that hardcore nationalists ended up collaborating with the Germans even during the second world war. After the war the flemish movement made excuses for them, suggesting they weren’t overwhelmingly true believers.
Something similar happened in Ireland. The blue shirts were a paramilitary organisation in the Irish free state which was opposed against the IRA. They provided physical protection to political groups which would go on to form Fine Gael, what is now a mainstream and moderate party. There’s also a debate about the blue shirts being fascists. What is true that many went on to fight alongside Franco in the Spanish Civil War and that they did the whole hand in the air thing. Their leader O’Duffy was also fascist, admired Mussolini, attended an international Fascist conference in 1934, but then perhaps crucially used the opportunity to argue against anti-semitism.
As long as Azov kills Ruskie invaders I don’t care.
Once the war is over they can deal with internal politics.
Azov = Nazi is Kremlin propaganda even if it was true. I’ve heard enough that says Azov purged their extremists before the war. I’ve seen Nazi tattoos on Wagner’s leader not so much in Azovs pictures.
Whatever the case Zelenesky is a Jew. I’ll trust his judgement on how to treat Azov. I’m not there and I don’t know any better and I don’t know what’s real and what’s propaganda .
In the meantime I won’t put Azov on a pedestal but will say glory to the UAF and territorial defense. Death to the invaders.
deleted by creator
Please note that I do not disagree with the heart or the premise of your post. I just feel obligated, as someone who is 100% on the side of Ukraine, to point out a bit of nuance. Because while there is NOTHING good or right about Nazism and the politics of hate, it’s not that simple in terms of the groups you just mentioned:
Yes. It is good to remember, though, that despite their ideology, their collective aims could not be more disparate:
The Azov Battalion fights tooth and nail in defense of Ukraine, and always have. They are literally heroes of Ukraine right now, along with so many other Ukrainian groups and individuals who are not Nazis at all. The Russians have capitalized on this and consistently tried to blame the Azov Battalion for their own crimes, like the Bucha massacre and the theater bombing of Mariupol, using disinformation to make it seem as though Azov Battalion was committing these crimes against civilians to further their Nazi ideology, when in fact it was the Russians all along. The enlarged myth of Azov Battalion is what Putin fed the babushkas at home to justify invading Ukraine, when so many Russians have relatives and ancestral roots there.
Wagner Group fights for Putin and always has. But they are not driven by independent Nazi ideology at all, they are an arm of the Russian government. Putin himself is the neo-Nazi at the head of this group: he openly embraces authoritarian, repressive government and is doing his very best to export it to the rest of the world, as well as trying and failing to assimilate a proud and independent Ukraine into his delusions of Russkiy Mir.
To me, these are two very different things that both have some Nazism sprinkled in and around them.
Again, there is absolutely NOTHING good or right about Nazism.
Yet in war, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
So even as Nazi-style political tricks and propaganda threaten the very foundations of my own country (US) and were directly involved in January 6 (Proud Boys) I just can’t fault Azov Battalion right now, and I feel obligated to set the record straight when Azov Battalion is painted as simply a right-wing hate group, when they are giving everything they have, including their lives, to free Ukraine from very REAL “Nazi” (Russian) occupation.
War is really strange that way. The good guys always seem to have more villains than we suspect (like the US in WWII), and even the bad guys often have a few heroes.
And in this case, there is real Nazism, and then that which simply dresses up like Nazism, and then that which blames “Nazism” for its own crimes.
And then, to make it even more complicated, Russia suffered directly (and horribly) at the hands of Nazi Germany in WWII, and thus the cry of “Nazi!” is a reliable emotional hook which Putin uses freely in his propaganda to get the general people on his side. Not just at home in Russia but around the world, and not just in one direction but both coming and going. Like creating the myth of “antifa”, literally short for anti-fascist, to characterize the goals of people who are rightly appalled by real right-wing ideology and goals, even as he funds openly fascist propaganda efforts in the west.
So yeah. It’s far more complex than it seems, much of it by design. Evil usually is. Слава Україні!
Azov was founded by nazis, western media and ukrainian reports that all the nazis have magically dissapeared are exagerated for obvious reasons.
This being said, there does seem to be some truth to them being less virulently fascist once they were integrated into the regular army, and maybe after so many of the original members died. The lack of anti-semitism for example, is telling. Ukrainian (orthodox) jews and members of Azov fight alongside each other.
I think the branding stuck because they were undisputably heroic and fighting Russia, and also as a fuck you to the Russians. Also, still plenty of nazis.
We have similar issues in Belgium, where flemish nationalists make excuses for collaborationists. During the first and second world war, the Germans exploited long held (and often legitimate) grievances held by Dutch speaking Belgians. So for example, they opened the first Dutch/Flemish speaking university in Belgium and offered Flanders a high degree of autonomy. During WW1 the Belgian army was also very francophone, which IRC caused some dutch speaking soldiers issues, this was exagerated by flemish nationalist and IRC german propaganda. The end result was that hardcore nationalists ended up collaborating with the Germans even during the second world war. After the war the flemish movement made excuses for them, suggesting they weren’t overwhelmingly true believers.
Something similar happened in Ireland. The blue shirts were a paramilitary organisation in the Irish free state which was opposed against the IRA. They provided physical protection to political groups which would go on to form Fine Gael, what is now a mainstream and moderate party. There’s also a debate about the blue shirts being fascists. What is true that many went on to fight alongside Franco in the Spanish Civil War and that they did the whole hand in the air thing. Their leader O’Duffy was also fascist, admired Mussolini, attended an international Fascist conference in 1934, but then perhaps crucially used the opportunity to argue against anti-semitism.
TLDR: it’s complicated.
The greatest glory to a fascist is to die a heroic death in a battle. It’s a literal death cult.
Be it in battle, self inflicted, or a freak accident, the only good
nazifascist is a deadnazifascist.The day the Jews stop being persecuted will be the day we’re all dead
As long as Azov kills Ruskie invaders I don’t care.
Once the war is over they can deal with internal politics.
Azov = Nazi is Kremlin propaganda even if it was true. I’ve heard enough that says Azov purged their extremists before the war. I’ve seen Nazi tattoos on Wagner’s leader not so much in Azovs pictures.
Whatever the case Zelenesky is a Jew. I’ll trust his judgement on how to treat Azov. I’m not there and I don’t know any better and I don’t know what’s real and what’s propaganda .
In the meantime I won’t put Azov on a pedestal but will say glory to the UAF and territorial defense. Death to the invaders.