I don’t know how anyone affords home solar. We got 2 quotes last year to put solar on our 1000sqft roof from solar installers in our area. The first was just over $100k, the second $160k! The second quote was for more than we have remaining on our mortgage - how is anybody doing this?
That’s seems ridiculous: where are you? Are you sure that’s just solar, or would it also include batteries, maybe a “solar roof”, instead of solar on the roof? As far as I know, most of the systems (in us at least) are designed for shingled roofs: do you have tiles or slate, or something?
Where I live in the northeast us, it’s typically $20-30k for solar panels on my roof, only. I don’t need batteries because I’d stay grid-tied and my roof is pretty new. That’s still ridiculously expensive and beyond any reasonable payback but state incentives make it much more reasonable. They claim 4-7 years payback but since I can’t follow their math, it goes into the bin with the rest of advertising hogwash
It’s not about having the money laying around. It’s about seeing if the cost over 25 years of electric bills is higher or lower than financing $20-30k.
If it’s more expensive to pay for 25 years of electric bills, buy the solar. If it’s more expensive to finance solar and maintain, keep paying your electric bill.
In some places and buildings, it’s cheaper to use solar. In some it’s not.
Also if you happen to be on undeveloped land with no power, the electric company often charges $1200 or more per pole to get to you, so it very quickly becomes worth it to just do off grid solar.
There was one guy I saw who was 400ft from power but thepower company wanted so much that for a tiny fraction of that he was able to put in a really nice off-grid solar setup. Plus then you don’t need to deal with connecting to the grid or any sort of permitting depending on where you are or how little you care about permits.
you still need the spare income to buy new land while continuing to pay mortgage/rent at your current home, and the spare time to do all the actual development
Yeah I get that. The problem is (at least around where I live) is they don’t give you 25 years to pay it off. I need to take out a loan to pay it back pretty quickly and I’m paying with interest so it changes things a little. I also can’t find any one that can do it for under like 50k which sucks. At least not yet.
I’m hoping that prices drop and the subsidies get a little more helpful or something. But right now I just can’t figure out a way to afford it. It’s just too expensive. Do you have them by any chance?
I don’t have them on my home because my HOA disallows them. I did, however, initiate and helped manage installation of systems on 3 separate family members’ homes and since I had already done the research and the financial benefit worked out for each of them. One was 6 years ago, one was 3 years ago, and one was 2 years ago and none of them have any complaints.
The 6 yr old system is almost paid off and has already reached its pay-off value since electricity prices keep rising… meaning, they haven’t paid off the system, but would have spent more in electricity in the 6 years they have had it if they would not have installed it.
I am currently in the process of moving out of a neighborhood with an HOA and plan on installing a system as soon as I get into my new home.
Thanks for the info! this makes me feel a bit better about swallowing the fat price point if the numbers work out. I’m hoping maaaaybe i can DIY some of it too as I’ve done decent amount of electrical work but i think hooking solar up to my home and having a standby battery and all that stuff may be out of my ability.
Also, hearing about your HOA makes me so angry. We only recently got our HOA to overturn the same dumb rule in my neighborhood. So annoying…
Even in that case, you are overpaying in the early years and getting free electricity for the rest of the life of the system. If you can only get a 7 year loan, you may have a higher bill for 7 years, but no bill for 18 years while electricity prices continue rising is a pretty awesome benefit.
You still weigh the balance to figure out what is economically the best option.
Yeah, for us the solar installation (5kw of panels) was around US$14k. Since electricity is quite expensive and we live in a sunny country the installation paid for itself in 4 years.
That’s a sneaky-ass edit just to rant at someone on the internet. They didn’t say “only 20-30k” they said it’s 20-30k for just the solar panels on the roof. They even go on to say that 20-30k is really expensive.
lol i didn’t edit my comment. If by edit you mean i “misquoted” the parent comment then i suppose you’re technically right. Let me fix it, “it’s typically $20-30k for solar panels on my roof, only.” i really don’t think it’s very different than “20-30k only”. I understand it’s still expensive… that’s kinda exactly my point. But saying something is “only” $20-30k is just pretty funny to me cause i’m a poor lol.
I would recommend most people at least have professionals install the hardware going directly into and through the roof to avoid leaks. Unless there’s nobody reputable you can hire and you are sure what you’re doing.
Home repair is often fairly simple and can be done easily with some basic online tutorials, but there’s so many people that don’t do that and think up terrible solutions off the cuff.
Metal roofs are also an option that go great with solar. There is a style of metal roof panels where you dont drill at all, you just clamp the panels on the ridges.
Roofing is its own ball of wax, but if youre handy or need a new one anyway they are a fine pair.
Keep mind that the prices in the article are FOB China (i.e. cover deliver to a ship in a port in China).
Shipping for Shenzhen (most likely port) will be between $1000 and $2000.
Duty tax for photovoltaic panels from China is 0% (I was curious so checked the TARIC database) but VAT gets added on top of it all (both the panels and the shipping) which depends on the country but will be around 20 - 25%
What I’ve seen generally (not solar panels but years ago I did look into importing LED lamps) is that doing it directly tends to result in it costing as little as 1/4 of the price but, on the other hand as a small purchaser you run certain risks in terms of quality and the manufacturer guarantees actually being possible to uphold (I’ve imported stuff were the failure rate was 10% and if you have to send stuff back, it’s going to cost you).
It’s worth considering for a big enough installation.
That said if one goes DYI, looking around in the EU for better prices is well worth it and does not carry anywhere the same risks (but also won’t save you as much) as a retail buyer for something that’s 7000€ - this kind of stuff is were the single market really makes a difference and might save you a few thousands of euros.
That’s pretty ridiculous imo. My system in total was around $45k including parts and installation. I got it Feb 2022. It’s 17kW system with microinverters for every panel (42 panels). No battery though.
I have some limited electrical engineering experience and don’t like paying other people to do things that I think I can do myself. How likely do you guys think it would be that I’ll end up burning my house down if I try to DIY a small solar installation?
It’s actually not that hard. Microinverters have taken a lot of the danger out of it. Every one or two panels has an inverter, they can be individually controlled and tie together with 120 volt AC wiring, so you avoid the issue of 100+ volt DC strings that can’t be turned off. And on the physical side, there are now rack systems that install very easily and look good.
Designing and installing the system isn’t hard. Just look up the documentation from Enphase or someone similar, you just need panels, micro inverters, a combiner panel, and maybe one of their computer management units. There’s other manufacturers too but the concept is the same.
Installing the solar is the easy part. Getting permits is the hard part. Municipalities throw up a ton of red tape and utilities throw up even more for any sort of grid connected system. So what would be a basic concept that a technician level person could design, ends up being this complicated thing that needs engineering sign-offs and stamped plans that have to be approved by the town and the power company and inspected 18 different ways.
This leads a lot of people to do off-grid systems, that is, set up your own solar panels and batteries, and run some portion of your house off at using extension cords rather than hardwired. If you’re just putting panels on the ground or on your deck and running extension cords, no need for permits.
I could have either switched to propane heating or oil heating for around $10,000 or switch to solar electric heating for around $12,000.
Not only was it fairly cheap, it also included a receptacle that sends extra energy back to the grid and I get paid for it.
The only time I have to pay for electricity is in the Winter months and that’s because the heat is on the go constantly and we don’t line dry in the winter.
Not only is home installation expensive AF but solar panels themselves on a house continue to look ugly AF. Uptake is going to remain slow amid these 2 factors.
Yeah. People hate hearing that it’s ugly. But it’s ugly. Some people have houses that have the backside facing the right way. But when the panels are all upfront it looks bad imo.
Yeah. People hate hearing that it’s ugly. But it’s ugly
Very ugly, and worse than that they can only be used on a house that is not surrounded by trees. I found out that the hard way too, the solar company said they can put them up, but with all the old trees around my house I would likely only see 50% of the power of an install where there are no trees. So I was like ya no.
Home solar installations however remain just as expensive ):
But every little helps, so this is good news!
I don’t know how anyone affords home solar. We got 2 quotes last year to put solar on our 1000sqft roof from solar installers in our area. The first was just over $100k, the second $160k! The second quote was for more than we have remaining on our mortgage - how is anybody doing this?
That’s seems ridiculous: where are you? Are you sure that’s just solar, or would it also include batteries, maybe a “solar roof”, instead of solar on the roof? As far as I know, most of the systems (in us at least) are designed for shingled roofs: do you have tiles or slate, or something?
Where I live in the northeast us, it’s typically $20-30k for solar panels on my roof, only. I don’t need batteries because I’d stay grid-tied and my roof is pretty new. That’s still ridiculously expensive and beyond any reasonable payback but state incentives make it much more reasonable. They claim 4-7 years payback but since I can’t follow their math, it goes into the bin with the rest of advertising hogwash
“20-30k only”… Lmao
I mean I get that it’s a hell of a lot less than 100k but I don’t have that kinda money just laying around
It’s not about having the money laying around. It’s about seeing if the cost over 25 years of electric bills is higher or lower than financing $20-30k.
If it’s more expensive to pay for 25 years of electric bills, buy the solar. If it’s more expensive to finance solar and maintain, keep paying your electric bill.
In some places and buildings, it’s cheaper to use solar. In some it’s not.
Also if you happen to be on undeveloped land with no power, the electric company often charges $1200 or more per pole to get to you, so it very quickly becomes worth it to just do off grid solar.
There was one guy I saw who was 400ft from power but thepower company wanted so much that for a tiny fraction of that he was able to put in a really nice off-grid solar setup. Plus then you don’t need to deal with connecting to the grid or any sort of permitting depending on where you are or how little you care about permits.
If you’re building a house from scratch on undeveloped land then money is probably less of a concern for you to begin with.
Undeveloped land is generally the cheapest
but you need to be able to afford to buy that land and develop it while also paying for your current housing.
DIY everything…
you still need the spare income to buy new land while continuing to pay mortgage/rent at your current home, and the spare time to do all the actual development
Yeah I get that. The problem is (at least around where I live) is they don’t give you 25 years to pay it off. I need to take out a loan to pay it back pretty quickly and I’m paying with interest so it changes things a little. I also can’t find any one that can do it for under like 50k which sucks. At least not yet.
I’m hoping that prices drop and the subsidies get a little more helpful or something. But right now I just can’t figure out a way to afford it. It’s just too expensive. Do you have them by any chance?
…And I missed the last question.
I don’t have them on my home because my HOA disallows them. I did, however, initiate and helped manage installation of systems on 3 separate family members’ homes and since I had already done the research and the financial benefit worked out for each of them. One was 6 years ago, one was 3 years ago, and one was 2 years ago and none of them have any complaints.
The 6 yr old system is almost paid off and has already reached its pay-off value since electricity prices keep rising… meaning, they haven’t paid off the system, but would have spent more in electricity in the 6 years they have had it if they would not have installed it.
I am currently in the process of moving out of a neighborhood with an HOA and plan on installing a system as soon as I get into my new home.
Thanks for the info! this makes me feel a bit better about swallowing the fat price point if the numbers work out. I’m hoping maaaaybe i can DIY some of it too as I’ve done decent amount of electrical work but i think hooking solar up to my home and having a standby battery and all that stuff may be out of my ability. Also, hearing about your HOA makes me so angry. We only recently got our HOA to overturn the same dumb rule in my neighborhood. So annoying…
Even in that case, you are overpaying in the early years and getting free electricity for the rest of the life of the system. If you can only get a 7 year loan, you may have a higher bill for 7 years, but no bill for 18 years while electricity prices continue rising is a pretty awesome benefit.
You still weigh the balance to figure out what is economically the best option.
Yeah, for us the solar installation (5kw of panels) was around US$14k. Since electricity is quite expensive and we live in a sunny country the installation paid for itself in 4 years.
That’s a sneaky-ass edit just to rant at someone on the internet. They didn’t say “only 20-30k” they said it’s 20-30k for just the solar panels on the roof. They even go on to say that 20-30k is really expensive.
lol i didn’t edit my comment. If by edit you mean i “misquoted” the parent comment then i suppose you’re technically right. Let me fix it, “it’s typically $20-30k for solar panels on my roof, only.” i really don’t think it’s very different than “20-30k only”. I understand it’s still expensive… that’s kinda exactly my point. But saying something is “only” $20-30k is just pretty funny to me cause i’m a poor lol.
DIY solar is apparently a thing. Got exactly this reason.
I would recommend most people at least have professionals install the hardware going directly into and through the roof to avoid leaks. Unless there’s nobody reputable you can hire and you are sure what you’re doing.
Home repair is often fairly simple and can be done easily with some basic online tutorials, but there’s so many people that don’t do that and think up terrible solutions off the cuff.
Metal roofs are also an option that go great with solar. There is a style of metal roof panels where you dont drill at all, you just clamp the panels on the ridges.
Roofing is its own ball of wax, but if youre handy or need a new one anyway they are a fine pair.
Really depends on your area and amount of solar.
For the DIY approach with 20 panels here in belgium, it would be about 7000€. A contractor is estimated at around 9000€.
If you make a whole solar farm it would be of course, much more, but for a single family with <8000VA it is more reasonable.
To get a 100k+ quote your area must have horrible anti-solar installment fees or the company is not legit.
Keep mind that the prices in the article are FOB China (i.e. cover deliver to a ship in a port in China).
Shipping for Shenzhen (most likely port) will be between $1000 and $2000.
Duty tax for photovoltaic panels from China is 0% (I was curious so checked the TARIC database) but VAT gets added on top of it all (both the panels and the shipping) which depends on the country but will be around 20 - 25%
What I’ve seen generally (not solar panels but years ago I did look into importing LED lamps) is that doing it directly tends to result in it costing as little as 1/4 of the price but, on the other hand as a small purchaser you run certain risks in terms of quality and the manufacturer guarantees actually being possible to uphold (I’ve imported stuff were the failure rate was 10% and if you have to send stuff back, it’s going to cost you).
It’s worth considering for a big enough installation.
That said if one goes DYI, looking around in the EU for better prices is well worth it and does not carry anywhere the same risks (but also won’t save you as much) as a retail buyer for something that’s 7000€ - this kind of stuff is were the single market really makes a difference and might save you a few thousands of euros.
I paid 24k not counting rebates in 2021 for an 8kw system on the roof of a >2000 sq ft house. I think you need to find some other companies.
Chiming in from Denmark.
Bought 8.5 kWp, a 10 kW inverter and a 7.5 kWh Battery in August 2022 for 120k DKK.
The price for the same system today is 70k DKK.
That’s pretty ridiculous imo. My system in total was around $45k including parts and installation. I got it Feb 2022. It’s 17kW system with microinverters for every panel (42 panels). No battery though.
From the top of my head, it’s approximately 7 to 1 conversion.
So I totally agree: your prices are pretty ridiculous in the US! 300k DKK for 17kWp of solar?!?
Ridiculous cheap or ridiculous expensive?
I have some limited electrical engineering experience and don’t like paying other people to do things that I think I can do myself. How likely do you guys think it would be that I’ll end up burning my house down if I try to DIY a small solar installation?
It’s actually not that hard. Microinverters have taken a lot of the danger out of it. Every one or two panels has an inverter, they can be individually controlled and tie together with 120 volt AC wiring, so you avoid the issue of 100+ volt DC strings that can’t be turned off. And on the physical side, there are now rack systems that install very easily and look good. Designing and installing the system isn’t hard. Just look up the documentation from Enphase or someone similar, you just need panels, micro inverters, a combiner panel, and maybe one of their computer management units. There’s other manufacturers too but the concept is the same. Installing the solar is the easy part. Getting permits is the hard part. Municipalities throw up a ton of red tape and utilities throw up even more for any sort of grid connected system. So what would be a basic concept that a technician level person could design, ends up being this complicated thing that needs engineering sign-offs and stamped plans that have to be approved by the town and the power company and inspected 18 different ways. This leads a lot of people to do off-grid systems, that is, set up your own solar panels and batteries, and run some portion of your house off at using extension cords rather than hardwired. If you’re just putting panels on the ground or on your deck and running extension cords, no need for permits.
Thanks, that’s encouraging. So is it the roof construction, grid connectivity, or both that requires permits?
Construction, electrical work, grid connection, sometimes architectural review to ensure the result isn’t ugly, etc etc
Start out with DIYSolarForum.com and see what you figure. It’s not rocket surgery.
I could have either switched to propane heating or oil heating for around $10,000 or switch to solar electric heating for around $12,000.
Not only was it fairly cheap, it also included a receptacle that sends extra energy back to the grid and I get paid for it.
The only time I have to pay for electricity is in the Winter months and that’s because the heat is on the go constantly and we don’t line dry in the winter.
Not only is home installation expensive AF but solar panels themselves on a house continue to look ugly AF. Uptake is going to remain slow amid these 2 factors.
I guess around every third house in my neighborhood disagrees with that synopsis
Yeah. People hate hearing that it’s ugly. But it’s ugly. Some people have houses that have the backside facing the right way. But when the panels are all upfront it looks bad imo.
Very ugly, and worse than that they can only be used on a house that is not surrounded by trees. I found out that the hard way too, the solar company said they can put them up, but with all the old trees around my house I would likely only see 50% of the power of an install where there are no trees. So I was like ya no.