Maybe @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org was trying to state that a lot of countries/states might not need that much “outside help” in making bad choices. Russia probably plays a role, but there might be more factors.
The extreme lengths that Russia goes to in order to influence elections around the world but specifically including the 2016 election are well well documented. Cf the OP article.
The US can absolutely fuck up its own self governance without any outside assistance (probably actually better than most small eastern European states), but a super powerful source of outside assistance is definitely happening, in this case
@some_guy@lemmy.world for telling what is and isn’t propaganda, I recommend the RV Jones approach: Just remove from your awareness all the stuff that when you hold it up to the light and look closely, is self contradictory or obvious bullshit (which in my examinations definitely includes all the “2016 wasn’t Russia” material I have seen). Everything that remains, in practice usually winds up being pretty coherent and consistent.
Not just extremes: divide and conquer. Having the “undesirable” positions fight among themselves, while helping to consolidate the “desired” option, is also an effective tactic.
Remember when they created on Facebook an in-person demonstration for Arab rights and created another in-person group of right wingers to go and protest against the Arab demonstration, I guess in the hopes that they would fight
Every so often a little piece of their operation shows in daylight and it’s always way more intense than I would have expected
I think the media needed an excuse for how Trump came into power that didn’t examine the societal ills that led to former Obama voters switching teams. Did Russia gaslight people on Facebook? Yes, undoubtedly. But I think it’s our crumbling society that he knew how to grift and exploit against people who don’t have a very good understanding of history and politics that got him elected. The media didn’t want to talk about that because it could lead to calls for change and they are big business.
Overblown based on what? Seems to me most people aren’t even aware it happened, and it was close enough that it likely determined the outcome.
Maybe @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org was trying to state that a lot of countries/states might not need that much “outside help” in making bad choices. Russia probably plays a role, but there might be more factors.
The extreme lengths that Russia goes to in order to influence elections around the world but specifically including the 2016 election are well well documented. Cf the OP article.
The US can absolutely fuck up its own self governance without any outside assistance (probably actually better than most small eastern European states), but a super powerful source of outside assistance is definitely happening, in this case
@some_guy@lemmy.world for telling what is and isn’t propaganda, I recommend the RV Jones approach: Just remove from your awareness all the stuff that when you hold it up to the light and look closely, is self contradictory or obvious bullshit (which in my examinations definitely includes all the “2016 wasn’t Russia” material I have seen). Everything that remains, in practice usually winds up being pretty coherent and consistent.
Yeah, I think other factors help them do it. A lot of their propaganda is designed to support political extremes that already exist.
Not just extremes: divide and conquer. Having the “undesirable” positions fight among themselves, while helping to consolidate the “desired” option, is also an effective tactic.
Remember when they created on Facebook an in-person demonstration for Arab rights and created another in-person group of right wingers to go and protest against the Arab demonstration, I guess in the hopes that they would fight
Every so often a little piece of their operation shows in daylight and it’s always way more intense than I would have expected
Bingo. I wish more people would see this, it’s shameful how badly democracies around the world have been caught with their pants down.
Authoritarian governments have a huge advantage when it comes to malicious propaganda. So much less oversight.
I think the media needed an excuse for how Trump came into power that didn’t examine the societal ills that led to former Obama voters switching teams. Did Russia gaslight people on Facebook? Yes, undoubtedly. But I think it’s our crumbling society that he knew how to grift and exploit against people who don’t have a very good understanding of history and politics that got him elected. The media didn’t want to talk about that because it could lead to calls for change and they are big business.
What do you mean specifically when you say “the media”?
Yes I think you’re right about the Kremlin’s approach: they exacerbate weaknesses that are already there.