cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1476531
Archived version: https://archive.ph/r4ZKz
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230815100118/https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/08/14/muslim-women-harassed-at-northern-italian-beach-for-wearing-modest-clothing
I think burkinis are dumb, personally, but I don’t give a damn what people wear. This is just typical ingroup-outgroup postering fueled by a proto fascist government, standard stuff really. Also, hygiene? Bro, it’s the ocean, a layer of clothing extra ain’t gonna make a difference.
Burkinis are great for anyone wanting to protect their skin without reapplying SPF 50 every 2 hours.
Exactly, they are really practical and they allow more people to enjoy the beach.
Great marketing argument to sell freedom suppressing items. What’s next? Winter is cold and burkas are great at keeping you warm?
Are scarfs “freedom suppressing items” too? Beanies? A burkini is literally just a wet suit with an overskirt & hijab (although most diving suits also have head coverings). Comparing that to a burka is bonkers and you know it. The idea of something suppressing freedom that is worn out of their own free notion is completely ridiculous. Telling others what to wear is exactly the problem here, and that goes in both directions.
It’s not neoprene, it’s made of the same stuff swimsuits are made of. It just keeps the sun off more parts of you.
I was obviously referring to its visual properties?
Oh okay sorry. I am thinking about getting a burkini or rash shirt/shorts now that the hole in the ozone is getting worse again, so I’m kind of focused on its practical properties.
I would be careful with that, because the ozone layer filters UV light, which can penetrate regular textiles.
No religion is demanding that women specifically wear scarfs or beanies. Denying that this mandate (burkinis and other items) is a religious one, wose ultimate purpose is to separate women from men is at least a denial, at most a support for totalitarian propaganda
What do you think a hijab is? The whole point of it is to be covered, not to be pedantic about it, like you are right now. The difference is whether someone dictates you to cover up, or whether you cover up on your own free will. And guess which one is freedom of choice?
A hidjab serves the same purpose as the burkini, to artificially differentiate women from men and create a segregated society where women have fewer rights. Individual choice or not, the end result is the same.
You didn’t answer my question.
I’ve seen freedom of choice when a social group pushes their norm on everyone. Either you carve or you leave. This is a very powerful tool to impose norms on people, women particularly. What freedom of choice do you have when you are a 15 yo girl with parents, brothers, cousins, etc who tell you that you have to wear “modest” clothing (fuck that phrase by the way, are men modest with their shorts and t-shirts?)? Either you carve or you break with your social group.
You still have not answered my question.
Lmao. How is it freedom suppressing if they choose to wear it? Look, in my opinion all religions are made up nonsense anyway (especially Christianity) but people are allowed to believe what they want and as long as they’re not harming others then what the fuck does it matter? You make it sound they’re trying to force nonmuslims to wear their outfits, which they are not. Meanwhile, at least in the US, God is thrown in our faces every which way. It’s in our fucking pledge of allegiance. I’d say that’s much more freedom suppressing than some women wearing burkinis at a beach. Plus most muslims I’ve met are wonderfully open and lovely people compared to nasty bigots in Christianity.
I am not going to argue which religious group is better than the others. In my view, they all support fairy tales and want others to respect or even support these tales.
I’m sorry but it’s silly to suggest that someone who chooses to buy an item of clothing is magically having their freedom suppressed by it. That’s not how any of this works.
If we get a hot summer this year I will most likely wear a rash shirt or burkini. New Zealand and Australia have the highest skin cancer rates in the world, because we live next to the hole in the ozone.
The hole opened early this year, it will be bigger than usual.
Yeah, and how many lmen wear burkibis on those beaches?
The burkini was invented in Australia to help people integrate into Australian culture. Interesting article here.
The male equivalent is the rash shirt and pants. All these things are becoming more common for people to wear because of melanoma.
If I choose to cover up for whatever reason, that’s my choice and it isn’t anyone else’s business.
I don’t even know where you’re going with this.
As these things were invented and trademarked in Australia and nearly half of them are bought by non-muslims for exact that reason, it is indeed great marketing.
And you are just spouting none-sense…
How many men are wearing them?
How many men are wearing bikinis?
You know very well that the equivalent of bikinis are speedos, your comment is not made in good faith.
I mean if someone wears a burka for that reason who are you to tell them no?
Of course, then why don’ men wear them, if burkas are not a tool to separate people based on their genders and establish a segregated society where people of different gendes have diferents rights?
Why don’ men wear skirts or dresses?
If you are arguing that anyone should be able to wear whatever they want, regardless of gender or religion, I agree with you. But I know that’s not what you’re saying.
I am all for men wearing skirts and dresses. No law is forbidding them to do so, at least in Europe.
How many men are wearing them?
Well, the hole in the ozone is getting worse again so as someone who lives near it, I’m looking at burkinis/rash shirts for the coming summer.
I don’t want skin cancer.
This.
Also, these men trying to dictate what women wear never seem to consider just how uncomfortable they make us in public spaces and that many (of all, if any religion) choose to cover up to avoid their gaze (as well as other reasons). They also never seem to have an issue with nuns… 🤔🤔🤔
Catholicism had its fair share of totalitarian rules. Europeans fought back for 200 years in order to free themselves from their freedom suppressing ideology. Nuns attire serves the same purpose of oppressing women and I holdbthemnin the same contempt.
Ok but what about Christian monks, does the habit they wear serve the purpose of oppressing men.
Of course it doesn’t, because that would involve @henrivolney, a man throwing a tantrum over women choosing to wear a bathing suit, being capable of critical thinking.
In a way they do. Their costume is a way to say that they put their life under the authority of a fictional character. The difference is that monks, Christians, Buddhists or Muslims, live apart from society in monasteries. Hidjabs and burkinis are a way to separate women on a daily basis among their secular peers, inside their social fabric.
They look like derpy wet suits. Although some are definitely worse looking than others.
Hygiene is indeed a weird argument when you swim in a giant fish toilet.
The hygiene part made me laugh, given the photo. That beach is full of children most likely peeing in the water and there’s a container ship in the distance, discharging god knows what into the sea.
Someone whose swimsuit has a bit more material in it is not a threat.
I read a survey once that had a large number of adults pee in the water too. It’s not just children.
Now that you mention it, I do myself, but not if there are people nearby.
That beach looks like a hellscape to be honest, there are just way too many people there. I bet the water has things like sticking plasters floating in it.
I just stay out of the sun. As an ignorant Italian in my youth I already caused who knows how much damage being taken to the beach by my parents all the time. I will cover up and wear a very large brimmed hat but mostly just stay indoors. Fuck cancer.
Saying burkinis are dumb is a really dumb thing to say.
For some bucket hats are dumb, but some people wear them. Not your place to judge. Also, it allows people of certain believes to have an equal access to commodities like going to a beach and go for a swim in a public.
In this regards, I would say, they are pretty smart.
Burkinis are absolutely a human horror that contradict every advamcement of women emancipation. They are the symbol of a society of apartheid in which women have fewer rights than men. But yes, people should be allowed to wear whatever they want, including nothing if it is their choice.
If somebody is forced (!) to dress in a specific way, that’s wrong. But if somebody chooses (!) to wear them for religious reasons, who am I to judge that?
My point is, there is nothing inherently wrong with burkinis - the context in which some individuals are wearing them might be wrong.
I 100% agree with you, that nobody should be forced to wear something that they don’t want to.
Not how totalitarianism works. How many Germains chose to be nazis un the 1930s? How many Russians chose to be communists in the 1950s? Totalitarian is a force that negates individual choice with a set of rules, anathemas and violence, with the ultimate objectve of a uniform society where everybody adheres to the exact same ideology. Burkinis are one of the tools used to enforce said ideology.
It isnt really a choice if the other option is being sent to prison.
Being a Nazi and wearing a specific kind of bathing suit are two wildly different levels of social impact. Please argue in good faith next time.
OK, see you on the beach with your Nazi uniform, we’ll continue this conversationthrn
TIL believing in a woman’s freedom to choose her swimwear makes me a Nazi.
I think you took it too far.
I won’t agree with you, and I don’t think there is anything positive you want to share.
You’re right. Nothing positive to say about totalitarianism.
Are you being unyieldingly obtuse on purpose or are you actually this fucking stupid?
That’s where I block you mate
I think Crocs are a human horror…
But that’s just my opinion. Other people can wear whatever the fuck they want. I won’t judge… (out loud).
Hell, judge all you want, even. Just don’t go harassing people for wearing them and you’re well within your rights.
40% of people who buy it aren’t even Muslim,
except those who choose to wear burkinis, apparently.
Not what I wrote. I wrote it is a tool for totalitarism, not that I wanted it banned.
But it’s not. It was invented by a Lebanese woman living in Australia. She had the choice to make it and no Muslim woman is forced to wear one.
You called them a human horror. What person calls something a human horror and proceeds to do anything but advocate for a ban? What we can do is acknowledge that burkinis were created for one purpose and now people are using them for sun protection and/or personal comfort almost as much as religious suppression. Acknowledging nuance is ok, we don’t need to try to force everything to be so black and white.
What you wrote doesn’t actually matter, all the rest of us can see is:
“WHaAAa!!1 wheN WilL IT bE mY TurN To hAraSs WoMEN wHO HuRt NO onE bUt mY TINy YEt mASSiVElY overinfLATEd frAgIlE eGo”
So you can pretend to care about women all you like, but when your only argument is that you want to be the one controlling them and dictating what they wear, not those other men, you’re never actually going to fool anyone in the believing you. 🤷♀️
You tone is turning nasty, I am blocking you.
let them judge. as long as they don’t force their opinion on others; that’s good enough. Cultural difference, that’s it.