Reddit was very monoculture in the beginning. The neckbeards upvoted each other because they generally agreed on the same opinions. That gets mistaken for adherence to reddiquette.
It became a rhetorical tool to prove whatever an individuals political or social adversaries are dummies because they don’t use reddit properly in current year unlike some glory day that never existed.
If they really did use reddit back in the day as they claim then all of the self referential satire about reddits pseudo-intellectualism must have gone over their head. It was like the second most popular type of content. Second only to the actual circle jerking.
Not sure what year but the culture definitely changed somewhere around 2008-2016. A big part was trump of course, but before that the rise in android and iphone and becoming more popular to a broader segment of the public (e.g. “boomers”). Before it was tech enthusiasts all on desktop PC. This was also before toxic gamer culture.
If you don’t think it changed you must have trauma induced amnesia.
So you claim that people are too hyperbolic, then jump straight to accusing the person you replied to of brain damage, and this after jumping straight to the assumption that the majority of said problems were due to Boomers finding Reddit, not e.g. Millennials or Gen-Z or Alpha or merely a less technical audience. If you were attempting a joke there, that was not clear - and yes I saw the “e.g.” but you only listed one, so really, this seems to be the best example that you had to convey? Boomers, who are well known for their toxic gaming culture, I suppose.
As mentioned by others, I for one do not user block instances bc “tankies”, but rather bc they are an enormous waste of time. Although the very meaning of that word could also be phrased as “denier of historically accurate facts”. I for one don’t care if someone is a Boomer or a Millennial or whatever physical age, if they don’t know or care that 1+1=2 and keep insisting that it’s =3 instead, I’m blocking them and moving on with my life. Hopefully they’ll open themselves up to the Truth one day, but I’m not waiting anymore, that’s entirely on them to go at whatever pace and direction they want, including straight backwards if they so choose - but I am not going to entertain the notion that “all directions/facts are equally valid”, they simply aren’t.
It was meant lighthearted, but trolling by fascists (maga) or agitprop (putin) does have an mental effect. That is my point, the culture and attitude has changed. To say it hasn’t changed is just factually incorrect.
This is the factually incorrect comment, heavily upvoted:
Lol what? What year did you join Reddit? As someone who’s been there since 2008, I promise you that this is nothing new.
He’s not just laughing at me, implying I’m some reddit noob, and then attempts to gaslight me. But I’m the meanie? Ohwee.
You’re saying you don’t waste time and when someone disagrees on facts, they are wrong and you move on. Could you imagine that if the mainstream constantly fed you one version of events, you might be the one being so sure that the historical events are one way that you end up saying 1+1=3?
You rely on facts being what they are because a google search results in sources trusted by you say so. All neoliberal sources fed by the US state department. And the dissident arguments and evidence just happens to be the same as a certain russian dictator - so they must be wrong. Which is called a genetic fallacy.
Luckily blocking, banning and defederation is easy on lemmy, so we can just live happily ever after in our echo chambers.
The culture definitely changed - you are right about that. I was not there at the start as you were, but ultimately, how could it not have? EVERY culture changes all the time, and e.g. the Rexodus surely had a large impact even since we all left it. Though the burden of expressing that point clearly I suppose is on you, and the burden of understanding you is likewise partially on them, i.e. communication is a 2-way process. The difference is that you spoke first, and then when others challenged you as to what you meant, you ramped the matter up by several notches and accused the other person of literal brain damage. This was hyperbolic, and attacking the messenger rather than the message, and after that many people stopped listening to you any further, seeing how you were speaking emotionally rather than logically, or challenged you still further. The responsibility for what they say is on them, but the responsibility for what you said is on you.
And yes, some people literally do seem to have brain damage, but intended as light-hearted or not, you did jump to that rather quickly… and while I am seeing that you do not enjoy being judged, yet you were very quick to offer your judgement to the other person… Why worry about what children are saying about you? But yeah, you did call them brain-damaged, and again that part is on your shoulders.
You catch more flies with honey than vineager. Do what you will with that thought.
so I’m not interested in this conversation but I do need to acknowledge that you’re misusing the term “gaslighting”. it matters. disagreement, or sharing a perspective you don’t agree with, is not gaslighting.
gaslighting refers to a specific form of domestic abuse by which the abuser attempts to control their victim by making them doubt their own faculties of perception, question their grasp reality, and ultimately become dependent on the abuser.
in other words, if you say it was great weather yesterday and i say “what? were you in the park at noon? the weather was so hot!” that’s not gaslighting. that’s having a different experience. likewise if you ask if I went to the park and i say “No”, but i really did go, that’s not gaslighting. that’s called “lying”. lying is not, in itself, gaslighting.
now if you say “but i saw you! you were carrying a green parasol!” and this were true but I went and threw out the green one and got a yellow one and replied “no you didnt, i dont even have a green one, this is my parasol it’s clearly yellow, are you sure you recognized me? maybe you are having some brain damage, let’s make an appointment and get you checked out” that’s getting closer to gaslighting. hey, that’s actually sort of similar to what you said to me, although I dont think you were gaslighting me, i think you were just being a self-righteous american jerk.
I know this is irrelevant to what you were hemming and hawing about with that other commenter and you probably won’t care, but this matters way more to me. please don’t misuse words that we depend on for understanding IPV
I was wondering if gaslighting was the right term to use, but decided to use it anyway. Maybe it is not appropriate here, maybe I’m hypercritical of your words, but I’m very much aware of what it means.
Gaslighting is today used in political context because of Donald Trump. Definitions change. And I think it fits here maybe not specifically because of what you said, but for the context. It is not the first time I heard “reddiquette about upvoting never existed”. It’s not just 1984 style historical revisionism, it’s self-righteous american jerks like you LOUDLY screaming “NEVER HAPPENED! LOL WHAT, ARE YOU ON COKE?” (paraphrasing you here, might have gotten your words slightly wrong)
If you look at other replies, you now also see a moving of the goalpost: It was just the monoculture of neckbeard circlejerks. Or it was just some “purists” who argued about it. But it’s always been this way.
Except I was there (3000 years ago). I’ve seen comments not downvoted that were disagreeable but well stated. Sometimes it still happens. They were not made invisible because they contributed to a discussion. I remember it. And it’s still in the long forgotten, now hidden reddiquette. Threads exists where this was argued about. Your comment is just wrong and it is rude. I am not insane.
Even when the fascists loose, they win. Gaslighting is now a routine tool of the liberals to reframe their narrative. Liberal was at war with Tankie; therefore Liberal had always been at war with Tankie.
I also see four lights, so maybe don’t take my post too seriously.
Lol what? What year did you join Reddit? As someone who’s been there since 2008, I promise you that this is nothing new.
Yeah, I was on Reddit for 13 years and I don’t remember that ever.
Reddit was very monoculture in the beginning. The neckbeards upvoted each other because they generally agreed on the same opinions. That gets mistaken for adherence to reddiquette.
It became a rhetorical tool to prove whatever an individuals political or social adversaries are dummies because they don’t use reddit properly in current year unlike some glory day that never existed.
If they really did use reddit back in the day as they claim then all of the self referential satire about reddits pseudo-intellectualism must have gone over their head. It was like the second most popular type of content. Second only to the actual circle jerking.
Not sure what year but the culture definitely changed somewhere around 2008-2016. A big part was trump of course, but before that the rise in android and iphone and becoming more popular to a broader segment of the public (e.g. “boomers”). Before it was tech enthusiasts all on desktop PC. This was also before toxic gamer culture.
If you don’t think it changed you must have trauma induced amnesia.
So you claim that people are too hyperbolic, then jump straight to accusing the person you replied to of brain damage, and this after jumping straight to the assumption that the majority of said problems were due to Boomers finding Reddit, not e.g. Millennials or Gen-Z or Alpha or merely a less technical audience. If you were attempting a joke there, that was not clear - and yes I saw the “e.g.” but you only listed one, so really, this seems to be the best example that you had to convey? Boomers, who are well known for their toxic gaming culture, I suppose.
As mentioned by others, I for one do not user block instances bc “tankies”, but rather bc they are an enormous waste of time. Although the very meaning of that word could also be phrased as “denier of historically accurate facts”. I for one don’t care if someone is a Boomer or a Millennial or whatever physical age, if they don’t know or care that 1+1=2 and keep insisting that it’s =3 instead, I’m blocking them and moving on with my life. Hopefully they’ll open themselves up to the Truth one day, but I’m not waiting anymore, that’s entirely on them to go at whatever pace and direction they want, including straight backwards if they so choose - but I am not going to entertain the notion that “all directions/facts are equally valid”, they simply aren’t.
It was meant lighthearted, but trolling by fascists (maga) or agitprop (putin) does have an mental effect. That is my point, the culture and attitude has changed. To say it hasn’t changed is just factually incorrect.
This is the factually incorrect comment, heavily upvoted:
He’s not just laughing at me, implying I’m some reddit noob, and then attempts to gaslight me. But I’m the meanie? Ohwee.
You’re saying you don’t waste time and when someone disagrees on facts, they are wrong and you move on. Could you imagine that if the mainstream constantly fed you one version of events, you might be the one being so sure that the historical events are one way that you end up saying 1+1=3?
You rely on facts being what they are because a google search results in sources trusted by you say so. All neoliberal sources fed by the US state department. And the dissident arguments and evidence just happens to be the same as a certain russian dictator - so they must be wrong. Which is called a genetic fallacy.
Luckily blocking, banning and defederation is easy on lemmy, so we can just live happily ever after in our echo chambers.
The culture definitely changed - you are right about that. I was not there at the start as you were, but ultimately, how could it not have? EVERY culture changes all the time, and e.g. the Rexodus surely had a large impact even since we all left it. Though the burden of expressing that point clearly I suppose is on you, and the burden of understanding you is likewise partially on them, i.e. communication is a 2-way process. The difference is that you spoke first, and then when others challenged you as to what you meant, you ramped the matter up by several notches and accused the other person of literal brain damage. This was hyperbolic, and attacking the messenger rather than the message, and after that many people stopped listening to you any further, seeing how you were speaking emotionally rather than logically, or challenged you still further. The responsibility for what they say is on them, but the responsibility for what you said is on you.
And yes, some people literally do seem to have brain damage, but intended as light-hearted or not, you did jump to that rather quickly… and while I am seeing that you do not enjoy being judged, yet you were very quick to offer your judgement to the other person… Why worry about what children are saying about you? But yeah, you did call them brain-damaged, and again that part is on your shoulders.
You catch more flies with honey than vineager. Do what you will with that thought.
so I’m not interested in this conversation but I do need to acknowledge that you’re misusing the term “gaslighting”. it matters. disagreement, or sharing a perspective you don’t agree with, is not gaslighting.
gaslighting refers to a specific form of domestic abuse by which the abuser attempts to control their victim by making them doubt their own faculties of perception, question their grasp reality, and ultimately become dependent on the abuser.
in other words, if you say it was great weather yesterday and i say “what? were you in the park at noon? the weather was so hot!” that’s not gaslighting. that’s having a different experience. likewise if you ask if I went to the park and i say “No”, but i really did go, that’s not gaslighting. that’s called “lying”. lying is not, in itself, gaslighting.
now if you say “but i saw you! you were carrying a green parasol!” and this were true but I went and threw out the green one and got a yellow one and replied “no you didnt, i dont even have a green one, this is my parasol it’s clearly yellow, are you sure you recognized me? maybe you are having some brain damage, let’s make an appointment and get you checked out” that’s getting closer to gaslighting. hey, that’s actually sort of similar to what you said to me, although I dont think you were gaslighting me, i think you were just being a self-righteous american jerk.
I know this is irrelevant to what you were hemming and hawing about with that other commenter and you probably won’t care, but this matters way more to me. please don’t misuse words that we depend on for understanding IPV
I was wondering if gaslighting was the right term to use, but decided to use it anyway. Maybe it is not appropriate here, maybe I’m hypercritical of your words, but I’m very much aware of what it means.
Gaslighting is today used in political context because of Donald Trump. Definitions change. And I think it fits here maybe not specifically because of what you said, but for the context. It is not the first time I heard “reddiquette about upvoting never existed”. It’s not just 1984 style historical revisionism, it’s self-righteous american jerks like you LOUDLY screaming “NEVER HAPPENED! LOL WHAT, ARE YOU ON COKE?” (paraphrasing you here, might have gotten your words slightly wrong)
If you look at other replies, you now also see a moving of the goalpost: It was just the monoculture of neckbeard circlejerks. Or it was just some “purists” who argued about it. But it’s always been this way.
Except I was there (3000 years ago). I’ve seen comments not downvoted that were disagreeable but well stated. Sometimes it still happens. They were not made invisible because they contributed to a discussion. I remember it. And it’s still in the long forgotten, now hidden reddiquette. Threads exists where this was argued about. Your comment is just wrong and it is rude. I am not insane.
Even when the fascists loose, they win. Gaslighting is now a routine tool of the liberals to reframe their narrative. Liberal was at war with Tankie; therefore Liberal had always been at war with Tankie.
I also see four lights, so maybe don’t take my post too seriously.