- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
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Fuck Forbes. They prop up conservatives and conservative talking points. They also post screens of tweets from conservatives, like the dickbag (from this article) who referred to the Ukraine army as “Ukronazis”.
The news of this attack is great to hear, but we should not be supporting Forbes with clicks. They are the enemy.
I tend to agree with you, but I also think it’s important to know how the “enemy” thinks and interpret the news. I don’t think we should lock ourselves up in echo bubbles only reading stuff we agree with.
In theory I’d agree with you. I don’t mind reading of nuances or different opinions than mine.
In general however, conservative media are worthless piece of shit embarrassments that I don’t want to waste time on.
There’s a difference between discussing with sometime with a different opinion, and stopping in the middle of the road responding to every deranged, mentally challenged ignorant mean crack addict who yells their vision of the world from the top of a soap box.
Agreed. They don’t argue in good faith. Their goal is not honesty and truth. What’s the point in engaging with someone like that?
Arguing in good faith is the important part.
As soon as I engage with someone not arguing in good faith, I leave. There’s just no point.
Comparing Forbes to a deranged, mentally challenged crack addict isn’t very fair, whatever your opinion is on Forbes or crack addicts.
Yeah, at least crack addicts have an excuse
We don’t need to post their blatant propaganda as if it were a reliable source in order to do that though.
Forbes is just a blogging platform where “contributors” can post their clickbait. Forbes adds their reputation and the ads and then splits the profit with the “contributor”…
That explains the extremely low quality content from them. Thank you.
I once had a college professor tell me forbes was ‘absolutely reliable.’
That was a decade years ago, but still.
Forbes used to be credible. Like so many, they gave up on making good content, because, it costs money to do so.
It not just cost money. It’s easier to generate outrage and “interesting” articles when you can just make shit up (or at least distort facts), so bullshit gets more clicks and thus is more profitable!
In this case you are wrong. This article is by Forbes Staff, not a contributor.
Forbes uses one name to deliver two different products, one of which is an in house magazine.
we should not be supporting Forbes with clicks.
DeVito gif May I offer you an archive link in these trying times?
Nevertheless, Slava Ukraini!
What does that translate to ? some sort of rallying cry
Glory to Ukraine
It’s a nazi slogan meaning glory to Ukraine.
I think you mean “anti-Nazi slogan”. The “Nazis” here are the ones doing Nazi shit, like invading other countries, putting people in prison camps, etc.
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“God bless America” seems a more apt comparison. Seeing as “Sieg Heil” was meant to glorify Hitler, rather than inspire pride of the country. Besides that, comparing Ukraine to Nazi Germany seems a bit too “Russian propaganda” for my tastes.
Lmaoooo wow
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You have linked directly to an image of a Ukrainian stomping on a swastika flag. You are not making the point you think you’re making.
They’re trying to liken it to the Nazis, but the fact remains that almost every single military in the world has something like this as either a battle cry or affirmation. US uses several iterations such as “Hooah”, “Ooah” and “Hooyah” depending on your branch so they can feel free to start chiming in about their views on US imperialism and nationalism any time they like, but we know they won’t.
Who out there would be dumb enough to think “Ukraini” would mean either “Sieg” or “Heil” and not just mean the the sovereign nation of Ukraine?
It means Glory to Ukraine. Pretty much every military has something like it (for example, Hooah or Ooh-rah for the US Military (specifically the Army and the Marines). It’s also a national salute, which a lot of countries have.
which translates to “say hail” in english
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/hail
Verb
hail (third-person singular simple present hails, present participle hailing, simple past and past participle hailed)
(transitive) To greet; give salutation to; salute.
(transitive) To name; to designate; to call. quotations ▼
He was hailed as a hero.The problem with the german WWII one isn’t as much the word as who they were hailing.
i very much doubt the Ukrainian word has the same negative connotations as the german one.
Conservatives like the Tories, who are like"fascist-lite", or conservatives like USA conservatives, who are full on “nazi level fascists”? 😅
I think Forbes is scummy for many reasons and never liked them, you’ve given me another reason to dislike them.
Except for the tweet, how is this article not just bringing the news? I don’t get it.
Believe it or not, Forbes has written more than a single article.
But why give that comment on a post that is not that?
Because, just like FOX News we don’t want to support any of their shit.
Just because there is one berry in the mountain of feces, we don’t need to go digging for it.
Plenty of better news sources to support anyway.
I agree with the referencing a horrible twitter user in the article being a bad thing, but your stance on conservatives, especially your username, is very fascist in of itself.
Intolerance of intolerance is essential to a free society. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
is very fascist in of itself.
No. It’s not fascist to have a firm and authoritative opinion. It is, perhaps, violent and authoritarian in outlook, but conservatives have just tolerated if not endorsed an insurrection under false pretenses and those conservatives have yet to kill the traitor responsible for it, so contemplation of violence is justified because this ‘cold civil war’ as Vivek called it is not going to end with that boomer criminal in power ever again.
Are you suggesting there isn’t nazis in Ukraine’s armed forces? Take a look at the cemeteries for the soldiers, you will notice some weird flags flying.
I’d say that counter offensive is going fairly well.
It seems like they’ve had the patience to do things very deliberately.
I’d agree, yet I keep seeing people argue the counteroffensive is going poorly for Ukraine because they’re not making serious gains in recapturing territory. People forget that there are many ways to “win” a war: one of which is the enemy simply giving up and withdrawing. Chipping away at the enemy’s ability or will to continue fighting is a path to victory.
You don’t need to steamroll the enemy if you make it militarily, politically, or economically untenable for them to hold a position.
Attrition is a powerful factor often forgotten in war.
Easiest way to beat your enemies? Surround them with pointy sticks and slowly poke and starve them until they give up. Bonus points if you hurl dead animals into their village.
Obviously that’s a bit crude but I wanted to highlight the fact that this tactic is as old as time. If they widdle Russia down far enough they might be able to make the sweeping charge everyone wanted to see.
Whittle
Thanks. I was struggling with that one a lot 🤣
Trebuchets for Ukraine!
Just mount the animal heads onto missiles.
Much more effective.
Attrition is a powerful factor often forgotten in war.
Lemmy armchair 5 star general recently completes Sun Tzu’s Art of War and thinks things are being forgotten about military tactics.
I’m actually from Kbin, so uhhh yeah.
Also I’m pretty sure most people learned about this in high school and just forgot because history is boring to most people except nerds like myself.
Anyone saying Ukraine isn’t moving quickly enough is the kind of person who will ‘go out in a blaze of glory’ on the battlefield by charging the enemy like a fucking idiot.
After they get shot in front of everyone, they just serve as an example of what ‘not’ to do to win a war.
I remember reading recently that Western powers assessed why the counter offensive wasn’t working as well as it could, and they determined it was troop placement I believe. I’m willing to bet they provided advice here to get them back on track.
Well, there are tons of minefields and dug in defenders too. I would 100% not want to be attacking that. Supposedly the Russians put two mines on top of each other so even mine resistant vehicles aren’t safe.
Although I recently read that the Ukrainians only need to push about 10 or 15 KM more. They won’t be at the Azov Sea but their artillery will cover the area. That means no private trucks will want to supply Crimea from that direction. So they are close.
The Ukrainians are literally fighting a war for their homes. The Russians are not. This is Vietnam all over again. There’s no way for Russia to “win” unless they just leave and falsely claim victory.
It really isn’t like Vietnam.
The US was extremely effective in Vietnam, I think it was something like 50k US KIA/MIA and 800k north Vietnam. If the US wanted to just steamroll the entire country they could’ve done it with relative ease. US lost because they didn’t want to steamroll, they wanted the southern Vietnam to take the ground after the US wiped the enemy out and it just didn’t work. US lost not because they couldn’t win, but because they chose a strategy that didn’t let them win. The US lost to their own arrogance.
Russia isn’t even effective, Ukraine is doing a much better job at killing than Russia. And Russia actually wanted to steamroll Ukraine, and failed critically. Russia will most likely lose because they actually can’t win. Russia will lose to their own incompetence.
Well yeah, I mean it’s like Vietnam mentally.
Yeah for as boneheadedly stupid as Russia has demonstrated themselves to be throughout this engagement, last years thunder runs were never going to be as successful this year as they were last year. Last years deep penetrating attacks were fun for watching the lines on the map move, but ultimately lacked grand operational value. They were high strategic value, to be sure, as they boosted morale, but the factors of asymmetric warfare are shifting. Russia will continue to have more materiel but aide has been balancing that, meanwhile Ukraine is receiving higher quality equipment and better trained operatives. I think the two big changes are Russia is learning lessons from last year and being more defensive this year, and similarly, Ukraine has been forced to learn their allies are much more willing to provide military aide for field testing than they are to provide the strategic goods Ukraine needs to take care of their populace. The result is Ukraine has much more offensive capabilities but is more interested in bolstering defenses to enter winter when the strategic value of glass increases.
Both sides are much less interested in knock out blows now that they’ve penetrated the others defenses and realized they don’t have the capabilities to execute those. The war has slowed down as both sides try to make sustainable holdable advances as well as bleed the other side faster than their own side bleeds to death. The question is, does Russia have more blood to bleed that Ukraine can ever draw, or is Ukraine bleeding faster than they can sustain long enough to bleed Russia out. I’m no expert, but my observation is that it seems like Russia is overly confident in how much blood they have. Sure the Wagner rebellion fizzled out and Preghozhin is presumed dead, but everyone saw it. The Russian populace is starting to get uncomfortable with the numbers of rapists and murders receiving pardons to go rape and murder Ukrainians before returning home to continue their vile ways. The Russian populace experienced something like 1 year of freedom following the fall of the Soviet Union before the current fascist movement took power and has over 1000 years of learned helplessness, but Putin is seemingly pushing every single button and pulling every single lever that could result in his people finally saying “enough is enough”
Well said.
They expected Ukrainians to use their men like cannon fodder to break through russian defenses.
It’s fucking stupid, I know, but most Western officials are just espousing talking points to please their constituents. None of them should really be taken all that seriously.
I do like to see uplifting good news stories like this
Yeah. The gradual triumph of Ukraine makes me hopeful for the future of democracies in general
Yes, I hope it has been making China have second thoughts about invading Taiwan
Taiwan will be a powder keg in China’s face
It’ll be there always tempting them, but it will be a grievous mistake if they give into that temptation.
China will never invade Taiwan unless it wants a war with the US.
Idk why you people keep saying otherwise as though you have a point. 50 upvotes? Really? Come on guys. Wake up to fearmongering.
I hope you’re right.
The investment and business class seem to think it’s at least a possibility. It’s why Bershire Hathaway sold their TSMC shares and why TSMC has started building foundries outside of Taiwan.
Taiwan has no defensive treaties, and an invasion wouldn’t automatically bring anyone else into the war. China, like Russia, is a nuclear power, so I doubt nuclear nations would directly join the war. It would be another Russia-Ukraine war situation, but economically catastrophic (because of this, I doubt China would invade unless it gets into an economic state where it doesn’t have much to lose).
I fear the moment the Republicans get control.
Make sure they don’t…
I appreciate the distinct lack of hexgoons on this thread.
I had to reread that twice to realize you weren’t upset at hexagons, and was wondering where you had found graphics of the Ukrainian war superimposed on turn based battle hex maps
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Because zebras are bastards
Hexoghouls
Out of the loop, what happened?
lemmy.world defederated from a instance full of pro-russia shitheel trolls who would ruin any discussions regarding Ukraine. It’s very nice not having to scroll through their propaganda.
Ohh I totally forgot about the defederation. Now it all makes sense.
ThanksNo tanks
finger guns
Zoop!
Yes! Good on them
Meh. I never saw anything like that. Usually russian-sympathizers are downvoted into oblivion and there’s not that many of them.
I’m curious exactly what these people were saying, but now I’ll never get to see because someone else decided to censor it for me.
Not really defederating, but I hope we can update lemmy so censorship is optional. You can choose to have posts hidden by mods hidden from you, or not. That way everyone wins, except for the children who think “I don’t want to see this, so neither should anyone else!” And honestly, who cares about those kids?
I got kicked from communities in lemmy.ml a year ago when I tried Lemmy for the first time, for not worshipping everything China did.
Glad that you actually came to saner instances once they came live, and didn’t just feel aversion to the Fediverse as a whole.
I mean I did just stop using Lemmy for a year. Then when Reddit did dumb and Lemmy exploded, I forgot that Lemmy was what I had tried.
hexbear is an instance full of communist trolls
Being pro Russia because you’re pro communist is so fucking weird to me. The Russian federation is an imperialist capitalist oligarchical fascist state.
If you look at it from the idea that they see non-western or more specifically anti-american as good by default, then a lot of their positions make a lot more sense. I suspect that if the US became the perfect communist utopia theyd still be anti-American.
They hate the US so much they have to bring it up continuously, everywhere and more so if the post has nothing to do with the US.
And look. I get being critical of the US, we’re a mess, but the solution to the problems in our country isn’t a slightly different authoritarian regime
Fucking seriously. I’m all for smashing the system, but those assholes have more in common with my racist Trump voting relatives than… you know… good people.
It’s been almost two months since I got here, and I’m still not used to seeing blatantly nuanced and sensible views. I might be a little damaged.
I get what you’re saying, but I disagree with “make a lot more sense”. It still doesn’t make logical sense, but this is how these people indeed think.
Oh it doesnt make sense for anyone with any ampunt of logical reasoning, but it atleast give an explanation how their reasoning works.
This is the correct take. They aren’t pro-Russia because they’re “communists”, they’re pro-Russia because they’re anti-west, even if that means looking the other way when there’s imperialism of the unexpected color.
Being pro Russia because ‘own the left’ and ‘our guy has autocratic dreams’ is even weirder
Let’s just agree that no matter your political leanings, being pro-Russia is fucking weird.
I swear to god it seemed like there was a massive shift in pro Russian sentiment when we all found out Russia had interfered in the 2016 election because
- Obama was doing sanctions about it and a certain group of people is always anti Obama, regardless of what that means, politically
- Russia had interfered on behalf of the guy they wanted, therefore Russian interference good
Logic has no place in that weird mob mentality. They’re basically pro fascism, just you know the fascists that aren’t Western. Makes it good fascism somehow.
Because they’re not communists, they’re just fascists that don’t like being called fascists.
The lengths to which they cry just because people use the word “tankie” is ludicrous. They also have this custom to equate “tankie” and “communist” the same way not too politically literate right wingers do.
Yeah it’s all down to the political spectrum bullshit. Far left and far right are complete opposite ends of the spectrum so therefore completely antithetical to one another!
Meanwhile in the real world, fascists and communists (well at least the Leninist/Maoist/Stalinist ones) are all just authoritarians with slightly different rationalizations for it. I kinda feel like the only reason the concept of left/right political spectrum even exists is so some authoritarians in academic circles can claim to be nothing like the Nazis.
Tankies are not Communists.
No. They are not.
Half of them are the obnoxious trust fund goons who lived on your floor in the dorms and had posters of Che on their walls. They generally came from wealth and this anti-capitalist rhetoric is just them rebelling against their parents. Their dad is probably a non-practicing jew who drives a VW Phaeton . They don’t know their birth mothers too well but their step moms are probably women who graduated from high school two classes ahead of themselves. The obnoxious goons who base their entire personality on these kinds of interactions, they pride themselves on being “disliked for speaking truth to power”.
The other half are shitheel trolls who are too wrapped up in their own attempts at edgy bullshit to understand the difference between “it’s just a joke, bro” and “just drink the fucking kool-aid, bro”.
Neither of those groups have any sense of self awareness.
So nah, they aren’t communists.
Don’t forget the paid Russian and Chinese state actors
I hope we left most of them on reddit.
No platform is free of them. All depends how big it is as to how much attention they give it.
Half of them are the obnoxious trust fund goons who lived on your floor in the dorms and had posters of Che on their walls.
That’s… so specific. It sounds like you’re just saying things, lol.
Che Guevara, not Che Banana.
Your dad ever bought a Jaffa orange ? well he’s buying nukes for Israël. He’s a jew
Lemme guess, they say fringe opinions you don’t like and that makes them trolls?
Thank god, they flamed the crap out of me a couple of days ago, I thought this was what Lemmy was turning into and considered actually leaving.
I just block anyone who trolls. It takes a while, but the more you block, the less they become a problem.
With a higher lemmy adoption their presence should go proportionally down.
Does it block comments from the instance as well?
Kinda. They still appear with a message telling you that they are blocked. You can press a button to show the comment anyway. It is like a soft block where you can decide if you want to read a comment or not.
What is a hexgoon?
Users from hexbear I presume. It’s an instance with predominantly Russia-China supporting users.
Wow, that’s news for me, never seen them supporting those 🤔
Don’t worry, there’s always a first time.
I can block the whole instance and their posts, but not their users yet :/
There was a post earlier that they jumped on.
I was blocking assholes for a good hour. It ain’t much, but it’s honest work.
Not really. Blocking them doesn’t remove them from the greater conversation, it just cedes the conversation to them.
Relentless mockery is what we need, not blocking.
Don’t feed the trolls, man.
That’s old wisdom right there. God - it’s been so long since I thought about the rules…
They don’t enjoy mockery.
mockery is still engagement.
just downvote and move on.
Damn right
The messaging coming from Budenov, the Ukrainian head of intelligence:
“We have the ability to hit any part of the temporarily occupied Crimea as of now. Absolutely at any point we can get the enemy. Those who have done stupid things, it’s better for them to leave,”
“And those who are waiting must prepare and do everything to help, first of all, the intelligence agencies, and then further, when the troops go into the open.”
Psyops for sure, but part of me wants it to happen. Now with this battery gone it definitely sets the stage.
I don’t think it’s only a psyops.
One think is getting hit by drones and missiles. It’s a whole different level to not spot a landing squad crossing almost 100km of sea, land and blow up your critical military installation.
They likely already did it last year, when they blew up planes on a Russian base in Crimea, but it is nice to see that they still very much can do it.
russia seems to be bad at spotting and stopping anything armed in territory not currently on the front (or maybe there too?).
That is one of the key points of this war. The Russian army is an army of the age of tanks, with a handful of air support and some missiles. The Ukrainian army has already entered the age of drones, and uses it wisely.
Now those new F-16’s can dominate.
I read a theory about why Ukraine has not completely destroyed the bridge to Crimea, even if they were able to, was to leave a way out & not fight the occupying troops into a corner, at which point their destructive unpredictability is worse than just letting them leave . This could be similar
No, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Russia has enough boats/ships to evacuate Crimea if they wanted. They used to supply the whole Crimea woth ships before the bridge was built.
If Ukraine could, they would definitely destroy the bridge. But it’s just very difficult task.
Putin would forbid any evacuation plans. A bridge allows scared soldiers a way to run away without permission from command.
WTF, the bridge has checkpoints on both sides, you’re not going to somehow sneak thousands of soldiers.
What checkpoint is going to stand against an army in full retreat?
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i wonder if Russians realize how nervous they should be… maybe seeing Russians shoot down Russians outside Moscow will start to wake them up…
Killing Prigozhin definitely pissed off a lot of nationalist Russians
What I don’t get: Doesn’t this turn the Wagner mercenaries into even more of loose cannons? What’s stopping them to just fracture into chaotic splinter groups now?
As soon as these mercenaries stop getting paid, they’ll wander off and find another paymaster.
Note that a good chunk of contemporary Wagner soldiers are forcibly recruited criminals. If there’s something less reliable than a mercenary, that’s a forcibly recruited criminal.
his name is a really easy banner to fly now… he basically can’t do anything wrong anymore… he died a hero trying to save Russians from the corruption of Putin… the anger will just grow, especially once that army in Ukraine starts knocking on doors inside Russia…
everyone sees that Putin just did it because he was AFRAID of Prigozhin
Even though I think that’s how it may have played in the West, it seemed like Prigozhin stayed pretty loyal to Putin all throughout, he was really careful to not lay any blame on Putin, more that he was misled. If anything, I wonder if blame will be placed on Shoigu, the Defense minister, that’s who Prigozhin’s beef was with I thought. I’d assume there will be some mob-style reprisals against Shoigu and/or the military leadership rather than against Putin himself. That still may benefit Ukrainians regardless.
Putin won’t axe Shoigu he’s his perfectly loyal Tuvan pet… not necessarily loyal to Putin (he started under Yeltsin), but to the office of the president: Shoigu is guaranteed to not make a move for office because he has no chance in the first place because racism.
He’s pretty much the only person among the Siloviki who is guaranteed to not use their position as head of the army to putsch. Shoigu’s best play is to be loyal to whoever happens to be his boss, and that’s what he’s doing. He may be otherwise incompetent bu he understands politics.
(Side note: Tuva does have a kickass national anthem, with throat singing and everything)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=KQaw-li9NQ8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Thank you for linking that. The anthem absolutely slaps. Now I wish I was Tuvan. Or, at the very least, I wish the Russian Federation would collapse so Tuva can participate in the Olympics under their own flag, and then I will cheer for them so I can hear this anthem.
i don’t disagree with one bit of your analysis, i’m just not sure Shoigu will be enough once Ukrainians start driving tanks down Russian highways… popcorn time in any case, like you say…
once Ukrainians start driving tanks down Russian highways
I doubt the West will supply arms for a large-scale invasion of Russia. They’ve already made it clear that the stuff that they are supplying is to be used only in Ukraine, occupied Ukraine, and Crimea, and not anywhere in Russia proper. And Ukraine has been very careful to strike inside Russia only with weapons that do not come from Western governments, and to aim only at military and government targets inside Russia. I doubt a ‘real’ invasion will happen. Drone worries and border skirmishes, certainly; actual march-on-Moscow invasion, I doubt it.
nothing on this Earth is going to stop that Army… they will do what they want now… you just expressed every Russian’s delusional dream…
Russians have some waking up in store for them
“And we’ll hate him… cause he’s a Dark Knight.”
Doesn’t this turn the Wagner mercenaries into even more of loose cannons? What’s stopping them to just fracture into chaotic splinter groups now?
There’s a BBC article right now that addresses that question in some detail. Take it with a grain of salt, but it points out that Wagner forces have not been on the ground in Ukraine since Prigozhin’s June march, Putin has had two months to plan for the transition, there are already replacement candidates, and the real difficulty may lie more in finding a leader with cash who will not oppose the Putin regime than in simply finding a leader, because Prigozhin was funding much of Wagner himself:
Nothing, and a few probably will. But a few small groups are much more easily handled. I wouldn’t be surprised if smashing the group was the main motivation behind the plane crash.
a few small groups are much more easily handled
What about just one guy with a grudge and a shoulder-fired missile launcher (anti-aircraft or anti-tank, depending on how you prefer to travel)? I’m sure Putin himself has countermeasures but he may still have problems unless his men can track down every Wagnerite who may have taken home a souvenir from Ukraine.
Historically, in Russia one guy with a grudge and a shoulder-fired missile launcher would have dropped the grudge in favor of selling the launcher for personal gain.
It takes a certain measure of belief and optimism to go against a distant enemy so physically removed from you and protected at every step, like Putin’s government. It takes even more to make a rogue soldier think one shoulder launcher would make any difference at all. But it takes no faith or hope at all to sell whatever can be sold and live like your commanders for a day.
That’s not to say it would never happen; I think it’s far likelier now than it ever has been in my lifetime. But the Russian mindset is completely different than our own in the west, they’ve had many more centuries of “meet the new boss, same as the old boss” than we have, and at the end of the day it’s just much easier, safer and more profitable to sell out.
You missed Afghanistan’s war huh?
That’s a really good question. Lots of implications. Will they attack the Kremlin? Will they continue stabilizing dictatorships in Africa? Will the Kremlin get control of them and use them in Ukraine? Revenge assassinations?
Most of those “nationalists” are fucking statetists.
Why, though?
that’s exactly right… keep that up, you’ll get there…
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this happened yesterday. S400 and Bastion
today there was amphibious raid in general area of that site, with air support, presumably allowed by previous activities
Ukrainian soldiers in Crimea? Do you have a link?
fresh off the press https://nitter.net/NOELreports/status/1694653600985723382#m
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GUR has released video of S400 site being destroyed, but only from the frame when explosion happened, as in, not showing what did it
Good.
Get absolutely fucked orc scum!
Good job!
Neat!
You said it, Barbie!
